The Lure of the Subaru

A forum to alternate source of power to include Eggenfellner and other conversions.
User avatar
cjensen
Whiskey Victor
Posts: 5275
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:36 pm
Location: Green Bay, WI

The Lure of the Subaru

Post by cjensen »

Well, I've tried walking away a couple of times now, and it keeps luring me back. After two weeks of feeling like I've made a mistake by withdrawing my order, I contacted the Egg factory late yesterday afternoon to reinstate my order for an E6/200 sometime in the next two years.

I confess to having a greed for speed, but knowing that speed costs money (usually more than I have...), I have to come to grips with the future of my flying. That said, I have no doubts that the E6 can and will provide the speed I would like when I want to use it (at the expense of fuel burn), but it has proved many times over that it is one of the most economical ways to fly. Flying is the most important thing, not speed, as I may have led on in previous posts.

The reliability of the Subaru engine speaks for itself. The supporting systems are still proving themselves, but I have faith that they will prove to be as reliable as anyone expects them to be.

Getting back to costs. I actually fear the costs of operating a traditional powerplant. When I had my Cherokee 180 with three partners, we had a huge cushion of being able to split big ticket items such as cylinders or an overhaul. Can't do that with my own airplane. I don't have the resources to fix an unexpected major problem with a Lycoming or derivative, such as a crankshaft AD's or glazed cylinders. That's where the Subaru shines for me. Being able to work on it myself, and able to afford parts when needed is a major plus. When I was in my late teens, I wanted a Ferrari (still do...), and I saved enough money to put a down payment on an older 308. In a decision made with my head, not my, ahem, you know, I bought a Toyota MR2 (SWEET CAR!!). Cost to maintain. That may be a bad analogy, and I'm not comparing the Ferrari to a Lyc and MR2 to the Sube, but I made the smart decision by going with what I could actually afford to drive. Seems fitting that I follow suit with my airplane engine.

So while I'm still a ways from needing an engine, I'm going to stick with my order and proceed with what I feel is the right decision for me. Who else am I building this for anyway?

Sorry this was long, but it's been on my mind. :roll:
Chad Jensen
Missing my RV-7...
Vertical Power support
920.216.3699
http://verticalpower.com

Spike
Chief Rivet Banger
Posts: 4013
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:40 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD
Contact:

Re: The Lure of the Subaru

Post by Spike »

cjensen wrote:Who else am I building this for anyway?

The wife? :evil: :evil: :evil:

So Chad, do you have a direct phone link to the Egg facilities or do you use mental telepathy to change your order status?
http://www.rivetbangers.com - Now integrating web and mail!
Current Build: 2 years into a beautiful little girl

User avatar
cjensen
Whiskey Victor
Posts: 5275
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:36 pm
Location: Green Bay, WI

Re: The Lure of the Subaru

Post by cjensen »

Spike wrote:
The wife? :evil: :evil: :evil:

So Chad, do you have a direct phone link to the Egg facilities or do you use mental telepathy to change your order status?
Yeah, we've talked more about it, and she's okay with leaving the order as is. She is fine with whatever I feel is best...whatever that means... :roll:

Oh, I have a chip implanted in my head, and I just say "Connect Eggenfellner" for order changes... :lol:
Chad Jensen
Missing my RV-7...
Vertical Power support
920.216.3699
http://verticalpower.com

User avatar
rv6ejguy
Class G
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:17 pm
Location: Calgary, Canada
Contact:

Post by rv6ejguy »

Chad,

It's good that you get to fly in your friend's Egg RV and the Lyco powered one to see the relative differences. Many order the Sube without ever having flown one. What did the Egg/IVO one weigh again? Just curious.
Ross Farnham

Flying RV6A turbo Subie
Building RV10 twin turbo Subie

User avatar
cjensen
Whiskey Victor
Posts: 5275
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:36 pm
Location: Green Bay, WI

Post by cjensen »

rv6ejguy wrote:Chad,

It's good that you get to fly in your friend's Egg RV and the Lyco powered one to see the relative differences. Many order the Sube without ever having flown one. What did the Egg/IVO one weigh again? Just curious.
Yeah, it's really nice to be able to see and feel the difference first hand.

According to the owner, the H6/IVO 7 weighs 1151#'s. If you've seen the cockpit videos, you can see the panel is pretty sparse, and the interior is equally so. Just cloth seats, no insulation, carpet, or side walls. Pretty light if you ask me! 8) My other friend's para-Lyco 7 weighs 1175 with a full interior and panel.
Chad Jensen
Missing my RV-7...
Vertical Power support
920.216.3699
http://verticalpower.com

User avatar
rv6ejguy
Class G
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:17 pm
Location: Calgary, Canada
Contact:

Post by rv6ejguy »

That's a pretty decent weight for an H6 with paint and fairings.

I find many of the Lycoming guy's weights are pre-paint, pre-interior, no ELT etc. Very few C/S Lycoming RVs weigh less than 1100 lbs. in full done configuration these days.

BTW that RV takeoff video looked pretty scary. Might have been the lens but it didn't looked like it cleared the trees by too much! Looked pretty sluggish on the roll.
Ross Farnham

Flying RV6A turbo Subie
Building RV10 twin turbo Subie

User avatar
cjensen
Whiskey Victor
Posts: 5275
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:36 pm
Location: Green Bay, WI

Post by cjensen »

Yeah, I don't really know why the video looks that way. I think he cleared the trees without any problems, but may have used less than full power for that departure for whatever reason. :?

The other takeoff video that I have is a 9A and has the H6/MT combo, and I was riding along on that takeoff, and it climbed outta there like any other did that day.
Chad Jensen
Missing my RV-7...
Vertical Power support
920.216.3699
http://verticalpower.com

User avatar
JohnR
Class B
Posts: 1081
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 3:22 pm
Location: Iowa

Post by JohnR »

I noticed on the take off video from the outside it looked like it took him a LONG time ot get off the ground. I've never flown from grass so thought that might be it. I know the RV's I've flown in virtually jump off the runway it seems when comparing them to the Cessnas I am flying.
JohnR
RV-7A - Fuselage - SOLD, just not supposed to be
Numbers 6:24 - The LORD bless thee, and keep thee

User avatar
cjensen
Whiskey Victor
Posts: 5275
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:36 pm
Location: Green Bay, WI

Post by cjensen »

I should have shot video of more RV's taking off from that place. They were all taking longer than I thought they should...it was HOT that day though.
Chad Jensen
Missing my RV-7...
Vertical Power support
920.216.3699
http://verticalpower.com

yukon
Class G
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:19 am

Frightening takeoff

Post by yukon »

cjensen wrote:Yeah, I don't really know why the video looks that way. I think he cleared the trees without any problems, but may have used less than full power for that departure for whatever reason. :?

The other takeoff video that I have is a 9A and has the H6/MT combo, and I was riding along on that takeoff, and it climbed outta there like any other did that day.
Oh please, Chad! What kind of a pilot would use less than full power on a short-field, grass take-off. These engines are under-performing turds, and that video illustrates it. I was white-knuckeled just watching it!

John
RV-9
Lycoming 0-235

User avatar
rv6ejguy
Class G
Posts: 29
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:17 pm
Location: Calgary, Canada
Contact:

Post by rv6ejguy »

I've flown a 7A with a FP Sensenich and O-360 and it was a total dog on the takeoff roll. Had time to file your nails from the application of full power to liftoff. Used at least twice the runway of my turbo Subie and I push the power up very slowly on it. Once we got about 110 knots it was pretty good speed wise and only slightly inferior in the climb. WOT saw about 174 knots true at 8000 feet which is about 10 knots faster than me at the same altitude using 30 inches and 4600 rpm.

The IVO is awesome on takeoff with the 76 inch diameter but I notice my best climb rate speed is a lot lower than other RVs- around 80-85 knots. I'm guessing that is due to the prop. My friend with the 7A was amazed at the deck angle compared to his.

I have no muffler on mine with the turbo but it is quite a bit quieter than my friend's unmuffled Lycoming inside and sounds really good outside- very distictive.

Watching other Lyco RVs on the ground run with C/S props- they look to take similar amounts of runway to mine- not much. I use 37 inches and 4600 for takeoff.

All very interesting.
Ross Farnham

Flying RV6A turbo Subie
Building RV10 twin turbo Subie

User avatar
cjensen
Whiskey Victor
Posts: 5275
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:36 pm
Location: Green Bay, WI

Post by cjensen »

Typical response, and expected from you buddy! (Yukon)

I can't speak for Benny on that departure. The other times I've flown in THAT very airplane (off grass and pavement), it performed as any other RV does. We took off from my home airport in Bloomington a couple weeks after that fly in, and it LEAPED off the ground, like an RV should. 1800fpm is by no means an "under performing turd" as you so eloquently put. :roll:

The 9A/H6 that I flew in that same day at Rebel's Bluff did climb out like an RV should, so I don't know what or why the other one looks that way.

Keep tryin' bud!

:wink: :)
Chad Jensen
Missing my RV-7...
Vertical Power support
920.216.3699
http://verticalpower.com

yukon
Class G
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:19 am

Post by yukon »

cjensen wrote:Typical response, and expected from you buddy! (Yukon)

I can't speak for Benny on that departure. The other times I've flown in THAT very airplane (off grass and pavement), it performed as any other RV does. We took off from my home airport in Bloomington a couple weeks after that fly in, and it LEAPED off the ground, like an RV should. 1800fpm is by no means an "under performing turd" as you so eloquently put. :roll:

The 9A/H6 that I flew in that same day at Rebel's Bluff did climb out like an RV should, so I don't know what or why the other one looks that way.

Keep tryin' bud!

:wink: :)
That was a 1000' roll in an airplane well-known for 300' takeoff performance! Get real Chad, what you see is what you get!!!!!


John
RV-9
Lycoming 0-235

User avatar
cjensen
Whiskey Victor
Posts: 5275
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:36 pm
Location: Green Bay, WI

Post by cjensen »

John,

1000'!? You must think that strip is 3500 feet long...that strip is only about 2300' total. He did not start from the end, due to the accident that had just occured, blocking a couple hundred feet of usable runway due to debris. He did not roll all the way to the end, so I would say it was probably 6-700' on a hot day on grass. The only one's that made it off earlier than 4-500' were the couple of Rockets, Cubs, and Stearman.

I understand that the video I have put on You Tube shows what it shows, but I can say from personal experience, AGAIN, flying THAT airplane, that it performs every bit as good as Jack's Lyco RV that I fly.

Sorry the video has you up in arms. I was not in the airplane for that flight, so I can only comment on the other couple of times I've flown it.

He has 170 hours on it, and LOVES it, so I don't see the need to keep arguing about this. He likes it, I like it, you don't. Big deal. Enjoy your 235...

:)
Chad Jensen
Missing my RV-7...
Vertical Power support
920.216.3699
http://verticalpower.com

yukon
Class G
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:19 am

Post by yukon »

cjensen wrote:John,

1000'!? You must think that strip is 3500 feet long...that strip is only about 2300' total. He did not start from the end, due to the accident that had just occured, blocking a couple hundred feet of usable runway due to debris. He did not roll all the way to the end, so I would say it was probably 6-700' on a hot day on grass. The only one's that made it off earlier than 4-500' were the couple of Rockets, Cubs, and Stearman.

I understand that the video I have put on You Tube shows what it shows, but I can say from personal experience, AGAIN, flying THAT airplane, that it performs every bit as good as Jack's Lyco RV that I fly.

Sorry the video has you up in arms. I was not in the airplane for that flight, so I can only comment on the other couple of times I've flown it.

He has 170 hours on it, and LOVES it, so I don't see the need to keep arguing about this. He likes it, I like it, you don't. Big deal. Enjoy your 235...

If not a 1000', what is your best guess of length used? See how it hesitates in ground effect with the tail up? See how he turns to negotiate the low spot in the trees? Scary!

Of course he loves it......what choice does he have???? You'll love yours too if you tie up your last dollar in one!

John
RV-9
Lycoming 0-235

:)

yukon
Class G
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:19 am

Hit the Dirt!

Post by yukon »

If not a 1000', what is your best guess of length used? See how it hesitates in ground effect with the tail up? See how he turns to negotiate the low spot in the trees? Scary!

Of course he loves it......what choice does he have???? You'll love yours too if you tie up your last dollar in one!

John
RV-9
Lycoming 0-235

User avatar
cjensen
Whiskey Victor
Posts: 5275
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:36 pm
Location: Green Bay, WI

Post by cjensen »

See my previous post for my guess on length used...I love how everyone breaks down internet videos and forms fact. Imagine if he flipped it over!

You are one of the best judges I know on the forums...you know it didn't perform, judging by the video, you know he loves it because of the money he has in it, you know I will for the same reason...gets old.

EVERYONE TURNED LEFT TO NEGOTIATE THE TREES. Even we did leaving in the RV I was in. You should've seen the Cherokees and 172's leaving that place. THAT was scary!
Chad Jensen
Missing my RV-7...
Vertical Power support
920.216.3699
http://verticalpower.com

yukon
Class G
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:19 am

Post by yukon »

cjensen wrote:See my previous post for my guess on length used...I love how everyone breaks down internet videos and forms fact. Imagine if he flipped it over!

You are one of the best judges I know on the forums...you know it didn't perform, judging by the video, you know he loves it because of the money he has in it, you know I will for the same reason...gets old.

EVERYONE TURNED LEFT TO NEGOTIATE THE TREES. Even we did leaving in the RV I was in. You should've seen the Cherokees and 172's leaving that place. THAT was scary!
What gets old, Chad, is your lack of conviction. My beliefs are the same as last week. Beliefs we seem to have had in common!

John

User avatar
cjensen
Whiskey Victor
Posts: 5275
Joined: Sat Apr 23, 2005 10:36 pm
Location: Green Bay, WI

Post by cjensen »

If I were building my airplane for you, I would feel convicted to believe in what you say or want. Last I checked, I'm not.

I reserve every right to change my mind as often as I like. I haven't bought anything yet, you have. Simple. Lack of conviction? Well, maybe...doesn't bother me. Why does it bother you?

I apologize. You win. :roll:

Back to Subaru's! :wink:
Chad Jensen
Missing my RV-7...
Vertical Power support
920.216.3699
http://verticalpower.com

yukon
Class G
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:19 am

Weathervane

Post by yukon »

No Sir! I want you to have the airplane YOU want! All I ask is you remember what you THOUGHT last week, because there are those of us who are listening to what you say!

If the Egg is a good engine, it will be good two weeks in a row. If you are just trying to preserve your place on the "production line" I would understand that too.

John
RV-9 QB
Lycoming 0-235

Post Reply