Well...I was talking with my wife about the future airplane that we intend to fly all over the country. I thought originally that I was going to go full IFR. I mean top-o-the-line panel. Then I started thinking that most of my flying is VFR, and that I'd save a lot of weight (and moola) by going that route...
Now, enter my wife...SHE says "If this is going to be our airplane, you need to make it IFR." I was thinking of saving some dough on the panel by going VFR, but hey, if she says go for it, I guess I'll have to!!
Yes... IFR all the way! I have had this discussion several times and it always comes up gauges! Nothing is more useless to a pilot than runway behind you and gauges left on the ground!
Anywho, with these new, lightweight displays weight really becomes a moot point.
I plan on test flying and certifying my plane as night VFR only, flying it for about a year and then putting it back into test mode to certify it for IFR. During the VFR phase I plan on doing my instrument training.
That's my plan anyways...
Gotta have a plan!
CJ
RV-7
Garmin G3X with VP-X & a TMX-IO-360 with G3i
It's all over but the flying! 800+ hours in only 3 years!
You guys that are PLANNING on flying IFR better plan on installing an Autopilot first, before any IFR instrumentation. Speaking as a guy with a LOT of IFR hard time in the mountains of BC, and all over the world, I can tell you that single pilot IFR is not a piece of cake, nor is it for the faint of heart.
A good solid A/P with alt. hold will bring the workload down to manageable levels and make it almost OK. The whole concept of single engine IFR is really quite silly if you are flying over fog, WX, etc right down to the ground. It's about as silly as night flying over the mountains in my view. You just have to get yourself over the mountains at 12,000 feet on top of a solid overcast and then, think about an engine failure for a few minutes until you realize how silly it really is.
Anyway, I know a few of you will actually do it anyway, putting your trust in Mr. Lycoming to keep you alive, but really, PLEASE do install that A/P to let you be the MANAGER of the IFR flight, instead of being the Pilot, the Navigator, the Radioman, the Flight Manager, etc. You need to lessen the workload so that you can use all the new glass cockpit stuff to accomplish the mission while keeping your situational awareness to the maximum.
Consider that airliners have dual or triple redundancy in instrumentation, power suppies, ENGINES, radios, GPS, AHRS, Pilots, Autopilots, with de-icing/anti-icing capabilities thrown in. Now take your RV-? and put it in solid IFR conditions, then give it a minor failure of some kind, electrical or instrument. You are now in real danger! You are not trained for these emergency situations, nor do you have time to troubleshoot while hand flying an RV in light to moderate turbulence on the gauges, all the while talking to ATC, monitoring your fuel state, declaring an emergency, navigating, shuffling letdown charts, reassuring or arguing with your nervous wife,...see what I mean? You just can't do it all!
So carry a First Officer and have an operational autopilot if you plan on hard IFR work in an RV. That is my input.
Cheers, Pete
(with quite a bit of single pilot IFR time in a Cessna 180, and probably 2000+ hours of handflown, hard IFR time period.)
Peter Marshall
Newbie RV-8 builder.
You wanna draw, ....against the fastest rivet gun in the West??? LOL
I agree WHOLE HEARTEDLY! I have been instrument rated for two years, and I still don't fly single pilot IFR unless I have 1,000 and 3. My personal minimums. They go up even higher if my wife is with me. I do fly SIC in our company Lear's, but that is a crewed environment with AP's as well, but as for me and my airplane, I just won't go unless I have basic VFR mins.
I will FOR SURE be installing an AP. Don't know which one yet, but I have some time to decide.
My two cents. Single engine IFR is rediculous. Not to mention Van's has'nt tested the RV line for IFR conditions and doesn't recomend it be done. I'm following the advice of several local RV builders. Minimum Day night VFR instruments and a handheld GPS, Nav Com and a Transponder and I'm good to go anywhere. It's also light weight.
The THIRD Phase 1 test will be for IFR certification.
Somewhere in there I will be earning my Instrument Rating, as well.
This isn't meant to imply that I will be making any large changes to the aircraft in between any of these three (or more) testing periods.
The reason I am doing aerobatics in a second, distinctly separate period is so that I can be comfortable in the ship and can expect the unexpected more readily.
The IFR certification is last, so that I can be reasonably certain of the entire package as a whole. I plan on having all the IFR instrumentation installed from first flight and to have been using it all along.
Yes, I DO plan on an A/P with Alt hold.
No, I DON'T plan on any hard stuff down to minimums. All I want to do is punch through layers and get into the clear and be able to shoot approaches in marginal VFR with an enhanced layer of safety called "ATC separation".
I know that people, many whose opinions I respect, have flown hard IFR in RV's. Personally, I don't think it is for me. To each his own.
Peace out!
CJ
RV-7
Garmin G3X with VP-X & a TMX-IO-360 with G3i
It's all over but the flying! 800+ hours in only 3 years!
I understand that line of thinking CJ. Same reason I opted to put a glide slope in my 152. When ya need it, it can save your life or at least help along those lines. Your schedule of training resembles mine also except I'll not be getting an IFR rateing. As they say, to each his own.
I haven't had my instrument ticket for long, but I fly single engine IFR as long as my personal minimums are satisfied. A few of those minimums are:
1) no flight in potential icing conditions - period
2) no hard IFR at night - period
3) reduce hard IFR time as much as possible
4) hard IFR only if you can break out below with enough visibility and altitude to ID a landing sight
5) approaches to minimums only at airports where I know the approaches inside and out
I really prefer to use the ticket to transition through layers and, as Chad said, break out on top. It's such an amazing sight to emerge into bright sunshine and blue sky after climbing through clouds.
I too will be installing an autopilot. It's handy to be able to let go of the controls to refresh your memory with the approach plates as you get close to your initial approach fix. I suppose as I grow more comfortable with the AP I will use it to shoot approaches, but the rides that I have had in single engine planes where the AP is used to fly the approach have been less than comfortable. From what I have seen thus far an AP doesn't "ride the bumps" as well as a human.
aparchment wrote:...From what I have seen thus far an AP doesn't "ride the bumps" as well as a human.
Now that is a great piece of information that I had not heard before. Thanx. Do you remember what the setup of any of those systems were? Who's autopilot? What was in the stack? What airframe? Inquiring minds want to know.
-- John
http://www.rivetbangers.com - Now integrating web and mail!
Current Build: 2 years into a beautiful little girl
I can tell you from flying a multi million dollar helicopter with 2 complete 4 axis auto pilot systems, that when you lock it up on an ILS it does a grerat job. Straight down the Loc and Glideslope(G/S). But.....when there is wind gusting from every direction, it does start to hunt, mainly in G/S. If this starts to happen as you get closer to the threshhold, it can really start getting out of hand. All it takes is a slight pressure on the collective to sttle it down again.
You are right. We can fly them better than machines. We can anticipate what that gust of wind is going to do to our approach. It does relieve the pressure to have them though.
RV-7A Emp
I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Most REAL IFR guys (I'm not even a phony IFR guy) who fly RV's tend to agree that the RV isn't the best IFR platform. That light feel and twitchiness that we all enjoy for our sport flying seems to be unwelcome among most of the RV-IFR types that I know. I know one guy that won't fly IFR in his RV without an auto-pilot. He says it's just too much to handle otherwise. Yeah, but what about WHEN that AP goes south? Still to much to handle?
I really don't know. I'll have to wait until you IFR types start finishing up your RV's and report in.
the only redundacny required for IFR is an alternate air source (actual lever, or break the VSI). but check with your local FSDO. they are all different. we have our 152 IFR certy'd and there's NO redundancy in that thing. no need for alternate air, though, if you're all electric. then it's a good idea to have a backup battery or bus.
