New builder poll on panels

A forum to discuss installation of avionics such as GPS, NAV & COMM radios, audio panels, auto pilots, etc.

I am going glass!

Yes! I can't wait to use modern flight instruments!
29
88%
NO! Those things scare me! You must be nuts!
4
12%
 
Total votes: 33

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captain_john
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New builder poll on panels

Post by captain_john »

Tell me, I am planning on going glass panel of some type. Either Dynon or Grand Rapids right now.

I know that most builders around me are going glass.

Spike is a "stick in the mud" steam guy. BUT that is okay, because we like him!

I thought we could do a poll on kits under construction now, since the prevalency of glass choices are so abundant.

If your kit is not flying, enter your decision here. Please comment as well, if you care to.

8) CJ
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4kilo
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Post by 4kilo »

Jeeze CJ, you must be a pollster for one of those political campaigns!

I always wondered how they managed to get just the answer they wanted.

Pat
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Post by Spike »

CJ,

By the time I get to that point they will be using telepathy to control airplanes :mrgreen:
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Womack2005
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Post by Womack2005 »

I prefer 'old school' steam myself. Video games are fun on the computer or nintendo, but I like the real deal in the cockpit. Plus, since I design avionics installs for a living, its more fun for me to see the old school stuff.

Just my opinion. BTW, has anyone seen the new movie "Stealth" with Jamie Fox? The panels in those planes featured dedicated video displays that showed them their wingman's faces. Thought that was kinda funny.
Will
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New builder poll on panels

Post by svanarts »

Yeah, kind of like in any movie where the actors wear a helmet (any space movie, The Abyss, etc) the helmets always have lights shining in the faces of the wearer.  How do they see anything?  Sorry.  Waaaaay off topic.
 

From: RB Lists - Avionics [mailto:support@rivetbangers.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 9:02 AM
To: avionics@rivetbangers.com
Subject: New builder poll on panels

 
I prefer 'old school' steam myself. Video games are fun on the computer or nintendo, but I like the real deal in the cockpit. Plus, since I design avionics installs for a living, its more fun for me to see the old school stuff.

Just my opinion. BTW, has anyone seen the new movie "Stealth" with Jamie Fox? The panels in those planes featured dedicated video displays that showed them their wingman's faces. Thought that was kinda funny.




Will
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Emp


rivetbangers.com - Discussion topic http://www.rivetbangers.com/cgi-php/forums/viewtopic.php?p=6127#6127

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captain_john
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Post by captain_john »

Looks like we got alotta 'lectric guys on the back burner!

Lighter, cheaper and (seems to be) just as reliable!

:wink: CJ
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Post by svanarts »

I used electronic gauges to monitor my engine so it could alarm me to engine conditions, fuel level, and so forth. I used a MicroMonitor because it came in kit form and was cheaper to assemble (for me.) I used analog flight instruments (compass, AI, VSI, Turn Coordinator) If I was doing it today I'd go with the ACS 2000 but I'd keep my analog flight instruments. I guess there's just something about seeing airspeed trends which a needle will give you that I just can't get from a tape on the side of a display.

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cjensen
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Post by cjensen »

planning glass with backup airspeed & DG. simple and light works for me!
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Post by captain_john »

Chad, once again, 1,500 miles apart and never discussed it amongst ourselves... we are building the same machine!

I also plan on augmenting the glass with steam. My ABDAR, Joe Gauthier has offered that at the very least I have airspeed and a VSI.

I plan on doing something like Dan did.

Dan's panel:

Image

BTW, Joe is technophobic and really doesn't like glass at all. Too bad for him. This is not his plane!

:roll: CJ
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cjensen
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Post by cjensen »

yup, i kinda figured that! :mrgreen: i've been back and forth on the additional VSI...

btw, we very well may end up with the same airplane...i'm leaning back towards a lyclone for power... :wink:
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Post by captain_john »

Hahaha,

Well, I dunno if I told ya this before but initially I considered and auto conversion. For me, I was sold on the Egg engine.

I just wanted something more mainstream.

8) CJ
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cjensen
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Post by cjensen »

i'm pretty much off the rotary front (for now), and i almost sent jan $250 last week as a deposit to hold a production slot and pricing for two years, but for some reason (that i'm still thinking about) i couldn't bring myself to actually send the check...that got me thinking. if i can't get myself to send a deposit of a measly $250, am i really gonna want to shell out $25k for a car engine???

so, i don't know. back to square one i guess! i did wear my lycoming hat yesterday! haven't done that in a while! :roll:
Chad Jensen
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mustang
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Glass or Steam,or....

Post by mustang »

Well, we are planning a glass cockpit with EFIS and EICAS just like the big boys. Having flown with this stuff on the 747-400 and 767-300 I know it works and it is better than steam. That said, all of the aforementioned machines have steam backup package of ASI, Altimeter, Artificial Horizon,and even a lowly B-20.

We have been considering both Grand Rapids, Dynon, and Blue Mountain to some extent.

I have an issue with Dynon, and that is that their display on the D-10A and D-100 have no degree markings on the pitch bars displayed. You know, like 10 degrees, 20 degrees, 30 degrees etc. I have queried Dynon about this anomaly and they seemed to consider it but so far there has been no manifestation of the markings. BTW, these marking are standard on every pitch attitude instrument ever made, so why the resistance here? Sometimes, I don't think these instrument designer guys are pilots.

I have no idea what these guys are thinking but I definitely want pitch bar degree tags on my horizon. I mean, how hard can it be?

The Grand Rapids units seem solid and are not GPS dependant for any part of the attitude display which I believe is unlike the Blue Mountain unit that is dependant on GPS for some part of the attitude display.

With GPS being the main navigation tool today, I hesitate to put all my eggs in one basket by being dependant on the GPS for any other instrument function. It is conceivable that the US Government could shut down the GPS sytem for all but the military and if that ever happens, I don't want to be too dependant on it and have my glass cockpit become unserviceable.

I am leaning towards the ACS2500 EICAS unit as looking somehow just right but the Dynon unit also looks good. All of the newer units have the crew alerting systems both visual and aural so it takes the load off the pilot to be a monitor and just have fun flying the airplane. When something goes out of tolerance, the system warns you and you pull up the appropriate checklist. Which is another nice feature, the checklists are in the EICAS and can be accessed when required at the push of a button. No more fumbling around the cockpit for a plastic coated paper checklist.

Add to the above the fuel computer function complete with range and endurance figures available anytime and you have the computer working for the pilot instead of the other way around. This is GOOOD!

Cheers, Pete
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Post by Spike »

Hmmm, It could be possible that adding pitch numbers might be quite difficult depending on the algorithm used by the machine. Does it have numbers on your degree of banking? It could be measuring rate more than anything and it might be difficult to extract an exact measure of bank or pitch. Just a thought.

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Post by mustang »

Spike,

Have a look at all of the other EFIS displays. Guess what? They all have pitch markings for every ten degrees. Except Dynon. Not only that, Dynon does not appear to have pitch attitude bars beyond 30 degrees pitch up, or down. How strange is that. What are these guys smoking??

I wonder if they have ever heard of "Recovery from Unusual Attitudes"?

The whole thing is a mystery to me. As far as how difficult this is to add, when we discussed the D10-A they said they were short of memory on that unit, but now with the D100, they told me that problem is gone, so, what is the excuse now???

I talked to the Dynon guy I emailed about this at OSH. He remembered my email and chatted to me about it. But still no action that I can see. Quite disappointing.

Cheers, Pete
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Post by captain_john »

Spike, looks like you are the only, lonely steam guy!

Pete, what is a B-20?

I wish that www.epanelbuilder.com would allow us a simple means of sharing our panel layout ideas! Spike, I see that you have copied all of the .gif's, but I don't want to go through all that.

Is there a workaround?

:? CJ
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Post by Spike »

Pete,

I agree with what you are saying. However, my point was only that the Dynon may very well work differently than the other units. Do the other units have solid state gyros? Are the better than the Dynon's? What about price points? If you want to do something interesting take a Dynon on the bench, turn it on, and put your finger over the pitot line fitting and watch the display. I dont know what algorithms they are using, and it is a neat piece of hardware, but I think you will find that they are using something other than just a gyro for pitch.

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Post by Dan A »

Check out the Grand Rapids Technologies EFIS. They use solid state gyros and magnometer. I have their EIS with color monitor and a moving map slaved to the Garmin 250 XL and it works great. They are at www.GRTavoinics.com. Their EFIS package is stand alone. You do not have to interconnect it to a GPS.
Dan

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Post by mustang »

John,

I don't think Dynon have anything different than the other good companies, that is, they use mems instead of the spinning top type gyros. All the new stuff uses these. My only beef with Dynon is the pitch display, or lack of it.

Cheers,
Pete.
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Post by Spike »

Exactly Peter. I was only trying to point out that I dont think that is the only thing that Dynon does because I believe that they are using lower quality solid state gyros than the others. If you turn one on and put your finger over the pitot static inputs, it will show a change in pitch. Wierd huh ? :o
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