Last round...Panel Layout

A place to discuss the installation of new flat panel instrument technology.
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Brantel
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Last round...Panel Layout

Post by Brantel »

After comming to grips with my situation and taking all the info and advice given here and mixing it with my own likes and wishes, printing full size drawings out and sitting in the airplane staring at them for hours, etc. Here is the latest layout for my panel.

I am down to the fine touches now with switch placement and clearance issues etc. The equipment list is fixed at this point cuz thats all the budget will allow and it lets me use my existing handheld in the mix.

Please look over my switch selections and placements and let me know if there is a major reason I should move something....

Panel 1.5" taller than stock, fuseblocks mounted behind panel. This will be a Night VFR airplane with the ability to shoot all practice approaches except precision WAAS to stay IFR current.

"Images revised below"
Last edited by Brantel on Wed Nov 26, 2008 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Brantel (Brian Chesteen),
RV12-IS, #121606, N912BC - Building Now!
RV10, #41942, N????? - Project Sold
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Wicked Stick
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Post by Wicked Stick »

I'd print it out and paste it on the panel. Sit in it, and go through a walk-through of a pre-flight, startup, taxi, take-off, then come back and land.
If you were to encounter turbulence during the flight and you were reaching for one switch, would you in-advertantly hit another ?

Is there a chance you might inadvertantly flip one switch mistaking it for another cause it's next to it. (What I mean is... are there any switches or knobs that shouldn't be grouped next to one another that would break a flow pattern of operation).

Having flown an already built RV-4 for the last two years, I have learned a couple of things from it's poorly thought out panel, that I definetely wanted to avoid on my 8.
Dave "WS" Rogers
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TomC
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I like it!

Post by TomC »

Brian,

I like your layout. That being said, here are a couple of minor things.

1. Do you really need a "Radios" On/Off switch? You already have the "Avionics Master" and the radios own switches.

2. I would move the "Boost Pump" switch over to the left with the other switches used to start the engine.

3. I would put the elevator trim switch on the control stick as you will be using it alot. Having to reach for it will become tiring.

Like I said, these are minor things. You should be VERY happy with the selections and layout you have choosen.

Good Luck

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Brantel
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Post by Brantel »

Thanks for the comments, I used them to mold the panel. Time to get this thing to the waterjet.... Almost!

Image


Hehe, I do that all the time! I have wasted an entire roll of plotter paper! Thanks for the suggestions!
Wicked Stick wrote:I'd print it out and paste it on the panel. Sit in it, and go through a walk-through of a pre-flight, startup, taxi, take-off, then come back and land.
If you were to encounter turbulence during the flight and you were reaching for one switch, would you in-advertantly hit another ?

Is there a chance you might inadvertantly flip one switch mistaking it for another cause it's next to it. (What I mean is... are there any switches or knobs that shouldn't be grouped next to one another that would break a flow pattern of operation).

Having flown an already built RV-4 for the last two years, I have learned a couple of things from it's poorly thought out panel, that I definetely wanted to avoid on my 8.
Got rid of the Avionics master, good call! I use the boost for takeoff and landing as well as switching tanks so I think I will like it better there with the right hand controls. I fly 95% of the time with my right hand on the throttle so I am not putting anything but a PTT switch in the stick. Easier to wire and less chance of accidently pushing them.

TomC wrote:Brian,

I like your layout. That being said, here are a couple of minor things.

1. Do you really need a "Radios" On/Off switch? You already have the "Avionics Master" and the radios own switches.

2. I would move the "Boost Pump" switch over to the left with the other switches used to start the engine.

3. I would put the elevator trim switch on the control stick as you will be using it alot. Having to reach for it will become tiring.

Like I said, these are minor things. You should be VERY happy with the selections and layout you have choosen.

Good Luck
Brantel (Brian Chesteen),
RV12-IS, #121606, N912BC - Building Now!
RV10, #41942, N????? - Project Sold
RV-7/TU, #72823, N159SB - SOLD

Joe
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Post by Joe »

Hey Brian,
This is my first post to RB, so sorry to start asking questions without even a proper hello. I noticed on your panel layout that (well it looks like to me) you have placed the carb heat between the throttle and mixture controls. I haven't seen that setup before and I was wondering what your thoughts were.

thanks,
Joe S>

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Post by airguy »

Joe wrote: I noticed on your panel layout that (well it looks like to me) you have placed the carb heat between the throttle and mixture controls. I haven't seen that setup before and I was wondering what your thoughts were.

thanks,
Joe S>
Agreed - that's the only thing I would say I would change - put the throttle and mixture next to each other.

Question for you - why the AP76 instead of the AP74? With a handheld GPS, you can't feed and auto-fly the GPS-coupled approaches legally anyway. Are you just planning for the future? I was thinking of a very similar setup with the AP74 only. Can the AP76 accept the data from a handheld for coupled approaches, or only from a panel-mount? Does it know the difference?
Greg Niehues
Midland, TX
RV9A - finishing - 90% done, 90% to go
http://websites.expercraft.com/airguy/
Building a 9A with too much fuel and too much engine - should drop dead any minute now. :roll:

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Brantel
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Post by Brantel »

:welcome:

It is a great place to put it in my opinion... The reason is that I can push the throttle and the carb heat in at the same time if I want to do a go around. I can also have my thumb raising the flaps while holding the throttle in.

I have simulated this many times while sitting in the plane with this printed full size and stuck to the panel.
Joe wrote:Hey Brian,
This is my first post to RB, so sorry to start asking questions without even a proper hello. I noticed on your panel layout that (well it looks like to me) you have placed the carb heat between the throttle and mixture controls. I haven't seen that setup before and I was wondering what your thoughts were.

thanks,
Joe S>
Brantel (Brian Chesteen),
RV12-IS, #121606, N912BC - Building Now!
RV10, #41942, N????? - Project Sold
RV-7/TU, #72823, N159SB - SOLD

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Brantel
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Post by Brantel »

I kind of like it that way, simulated it many times. Must just be a matter of personal preference I guess.

On the AP76.....The AP76 enables all the vertical coupling modes on the Dynon system. While I am planning for the future, there are some things that the AP76 will do with my panel plan now that the AP74 will not.

1. It can couple to the VNAV functions of the X96 and do a really good job of getting you down from a high cruise altitude on time.

2. It can couple to the GS of the SL30 and do a fully coupled ILS approach.

The AP74 and AP76 only use the GPS or Nav data that is available on the system. The serial ports on the screens or the HS34 are the key to the data sources.

With serial, your stuck with SL30 VOR, LOC, GS and NMEA or Aviation Data out of the GPS's. With the X96's you do get VNAV with serial but it is limited and won't do full approaches (it shuts off 500ft above the MAP waypoint).

With the HS34 you open up ARINC 429 possibilities and with that you can add GPSS and GPSV steering to the mix if your panel mount GPS supports it. That really makes it nice. GPSV is normally only on WAAS enabled panel mount GPS's.

Bottom line for me is that I want to plan for the future and get the most use out of the SL30 and take advantage of the VNAV coupling as well. Most likely I will start with the AP74 and trade up when the AP76 is released (if it is not already when I pull the trigger on my avionics).

Take a look at the lowest priced model of TT AP you can get that will couple to a NAV radio (AP100). That thing list at $6900 and you don't get an EFIS with it.....

airguy wrote: Agreed - that's the only thing I would say I would change - put the throttle and mixture next to each other.

Question for you - why the AP76 instead of the AP74? With a handheld GPS, you can't feed and auto-fly the GPS-coupled approaches legally anyway. Are you just planning for the future? I was thinking of a very similar setup with the AP74 only. Can the AP76 accept the data from a handheld for coupled approaches, or only from a panel-mount? Does it know the difference?
Brantel (Brian Chesteen),
RV12-IS, #121606, N912BC - Building Now!
RV10, #41942, N????? - Project Sold
RV-7/TU, #72823, N159SB - SOLD

airguy
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Post by airguy »

Clear!

I'm sold on the Dynon as well, I've already got the servos. I was seriously thinking about just running the D180 screen, but I really like the D100 and D120 the way you have it, for redundant EFIS.

As for the AP76, I have to agree, the ability to run the fully coupled ILS from the SL30 alone is worth the upgrade.
Greg Niehues
Midland, TX
RV9A - finishing - 90% done, 90% to go
http://websites.expercraft.com/airguy/
Building a 9A with too much fuel and too much engine - should drop dead any minute now. :roll:

Joe
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Post by Joe »

Thanks for the welcome and the explanation Brian. I hadn't considered needing to turn off the heat on a go-around. I'm flying/renting a Warrior II and don't use carb heat in the pattern after "clearing" on entry per the POH. I'd forgotten how much use I gave carb heat in the Cessnas. Clearly you've put a ton of thought into the layout and it's neat that you can customize for your own technique. Great progress on your plane too. I've really enjoyed your status updates. Considering the speed you move at, there must be some potent coffee to be had in Tennessee.

Joe S>

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Brantel
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Post by Brantel »

Keep in mind that if you want true redundant Efis, you need a D180 and a D100 not a D100 and a D120.... The D120 is an engine monitor that just happens to be able to display the Efis if it is connected to one.

Loose the D100 in a D100/D120 combo and you have no Efis.

I like the dual screen so you can have EFIS/HSI and EMS on the panel all at the same time which is not possible with just a D180 alone.
Brantel (Brian Chesteen),
RV12-IS, #121606, N912BC - Building Now!
RV10, #41942, N????? - Project Sold
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weezbad
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Post by weezbad »

i went the 100 and the 120 so i could have gps on one and vor on the other.
william....don't let it beat you down, you are stronger than you think.

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Brantel
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Post by Brantel »

Yep with either the D180 or a D100/D120 combo, you have two serial ports available and with the SL30 you can have one connected to the GPS and one connected to the SL30 and use the menus to decide which one is driving the HSI. In this setup, you do not need the HS34 unless you want to do ARINC 429 or you want to have more control over the bearing and source pointers of the HSI.

There are some limitations to not having an HS34...It is mainly in that you are limited in how many different variations of bearing and course pointers and what is driving them. Without the HS34 you only can select one of the following overlays for the HSI: DG, Nav, or GPS. With the HS34 you can make combinations of the above on the HSI and the two RMI pointers.

Keep in mind though that in any Dynon system there is really only one HSI and however it is configured is how it will show on all the screens. In other words, you can't have an HSI on the D100 with GPS controlling the course/CDI and at the same time have an HSI showing on the D120 with the SL30 controlling the course/CDI.
Brantel (Brian Chesteen),
RV12-IS, #121606, N912BC - Building Now!
RV10, #41942, N????? - Project Sold
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cjensen
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Post by cjensen »

I have to admit I haven't read this whole thread, but I chuckled when I read the title...I though you were going back to ROUND gauges!! :o

:P 8)
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