Wing Construction Order?

[Mike Balzer]

Why are most people riveting the ribs to the front & rear spar before they drill the skins.

Is there a problem with clecoing the ribs on the front & rear spar, then drill the skin and dimple the ribs with the pneumatic squeezer in a vise.

I am almost done deburing the ribs and would like to make the best jugdement on what way would be easier to do.


Your help is appriciated

Mike Balzer

[weezbad]

well i guess it eliminated any vetrical movenment in the assy and also means you only have to set up the wingstand once per wing. clecoes hold well in in shear but seem to have a little play tension wise.... i did as the plans reccomend FWIW

[Wicked Stick]

It stands to reason that by riveting the ribs to the spar first, the alignment when match drilling the skins to the ribs will be exact. If you don't there's a chance that the hole position in the ribs will change from the cleco position versus the riveted position.

Make sure you rivet all the ribs to the main spar first. This way you can bend them out a bit to get a good rivet gun alignment.
Then after all the ribs to main spar riveting is completed, you can rivet/squeeze most of the rib to rear spar rivets.

[Mike Balzer]

Thanks Will & Dave,
I will take what you suggested into great consideration when assembing my wing skeleton.

If I remember correctly I think I clecoed the ribs on the Horizontal stabilizer front and rear spar and drilled the skin, then I disassembled everything deburred all holes and dimpled the ribs and skin and riveted everything together in the order of the manual.

Thanks for the input,

Mike Balzer

[Spike]

The chord of the wings is larger than that of the HS. You could get more movement laterally of the holes over the larger length of the ribs. It also helps prevent twist in the ribs relative to their center line.

[chaskuss]

Mike,
I think most folks are simply following the plans blindly. My EAA tech councilor (he built an RV4) advised me not to rivet anything until I had reached a point where waiting longer would make assembly more difficult.
I drilled and clecoed my wings together first. The only things I riveted together were the doublers to the rear spars. Leaving stuff only clecoed allowed for easier deburring, dimpling, etch, Alodine and priming of the various parts (particularly the ribs)
The same advice works well for the fuselage as well. I did NOT rivet the fuselage floor ribs to the F-806 rear spar bulkhead (as listed in the plans). The GREATLY reduces the work load if you plan to install nutplates for removable floors. It also allows you to drill ALL the holes in those ribs PRIOR to doing any deburring, dimpling or fitting of nutplates to them.
Charlie Kuss

[Mike Balzer]

Thanks Chuck,
I have clecoed and drilled 4x8 ft section of skin on a 737 that became delaminated and corrosion was setting in between the layers. That large section of skin never moved and the clecos held it well in place. The thought process you mentioned sounds like the way to go as long as it does not interfere with any procedures or future steps in bulding the plane.

I believe that doing it the way you mentioned will not give me a problem and my wing will be straight and it will save me time in the future for other tasks that need to be completed.

I still am deburring and straighting out the ribs, what a "PITA" and then I have to deturmine if I want to go with the corrigated conduit or just place the grommits in the ribs and leave a string in there and pull all wires at once when it is time to wire.

Your input is apreciated,

Mike Balzer

[chaskuss]

Mike,
One thing about waiting to rivet. You can't scrimp on the Clecos. I try to use one in every other hole, to help maintain alignment. I built both wings at the same time, which required about 2,000 3/32" Clecos. During the "opening up to #40 process, I used a Cleco in EVERY hole. Nothing shifted on my wings.
One thing I DID have to watch out for, was the increasing weight of each wing in the jig (I don't have a "matched hole" kit) as pieces were added. As the assembly's weight increased, I would have to re-check the plumb and level of each wing. I found that as weight increased, I had to adjust the wing jig (all steel jig) to maintain level and plumb. Don't ASSume that nothing will move during the build.
Charlie

[Mike Balzer]

Thanks Chuck,
I am lucky to have a matched hole wing kit and tail kit. I dont see how a wing can be built crooked with a matched hole kit.

I do remember that the weight of my Horizontal Stablizer was alot and I built it flat on a solid wood door mounted to a steel frame work bench and it lined up perfectly.

Jigs arnt nesscesary for perfict alignment, but may help in riveting and drilling.

Or you could just make padded cradles for the wing and do the riveting and drilling in the cradle for axis to both sides.

Happy Holloween,

Mike Balzer

[chaskuss]

Thanks Chuck,
I am lucky to have a matched hole wing kit and tail kit. I dont see how a wing can be built crooked with a matched hole kit.

snipped
Mike Balzer

Mike,
That is EXACTLY the attitude which will get you in trouble. Remember that there is still a slight clearance in every rivet hole. On long pieces, you can still introduce a twist or bow, if you are not careful.
Keep checking with plumb bobs and levels to ensure that your parts come out straight. Time spent doing these checks will be paid off later, when everything fits right. Screw up now and you will pay for your carelessness by a time factor of 4:1 (time spent later : time saved now), later.
Charlie

[Spike]

I am with Charlie on this. I am building a 9 and have managed to warp some things, especially control surfaces. You can get away without a jig in the prepunched stuff, but that doesn't mean your parts can get warped accidentally.

[chaskuss]

I am with Charlie on this. I am building a 9 and have managed to warp some things, especially control surfaces. You can get away without a jig in the prepunched stuff, but that doesn't mean your parts can get warped accidentally.

My RV guru recommended building the flaps on a perfectly flat surface, rather than a jig. A door on two leveled out saw horses works quite well for that. Remember, that right up to the riveting process, you have the chance to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Measure twice and cut once, as they say.
Charlie

[Spike]

For myself, my flaps and ailerons came out about as flat as I could have ever hoped. My elevators on the other hand .... well, they were the reason my flaps came out so good

[airguy]

For myself, my flaps and ailerons came out about as flat as I could have ever hoped. My elevators on the other hand .... well, they were the reason my flaps came out so good

I believe this falls under the heading of "learning curve"

My proseal experience is similar - my right extended range tank is coming out looking great and clean, mostly because my right main tank did not!

[chaskuss]

My RV building guru told me to build the flaps and ailerons BEFORE setting up the wing jig and building the skeleton. He said it was best to keep building control surface parts, since I had just finished the elevators. I agree with Greg & Spike, a particular skill gets better with experience. Use that experience while it's still fresh in your mind.
Charlie

[Wicked Stick]

shouldn't this thread go into the "General Construction" category ?
Sounds to me like all this advice belongs there and not RV-8 specific.

[Spike]

Good point Dave. Ill move it over.