Talk some sense into me

A forum for the proverbial airport bum who just wants to talk about anything and everything related to flying. Introduce yourself here !!

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cjensen
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Post by cjensen »

RV7Factory wrote:
cjensen wrote:Brad and I have had this conversation many times, going back to my week-long date with him at OSH '07. :wink:
For the record, I drank a lot of beer at OSH 07 but it had no effect... Chad didn't get any better looking. :)
What!? I...okay, I'm gonna just leave this be...Image

I've come to realize that I'm not building to save expenses like I thought I would. Airplanes are expensive, no matter what you are building/flying. BUT, the performance one gets with an RV is untouchable by ANYTHING else in this price range, certified or not. You could buy one heck of a nice certified airplane for this kind of money, but it won't do what an RV will do!

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Chad Jensen
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RV7Factory
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Post by RV7Factory »

Spike wrote:
RV7Factory wrote: For the record, I drank a lot of beer at OSH 07 but it had no effect... Chad didn't get any better looking. :)
So then you are saying that your state of soberness was not causal to your feelings for Chad?

:mrgreen:
What can I say, I guess I have low standards. :mrgreen:
Brad Oliver
RV-7 | Livermore, CA
RV7Factory.com
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cjensen
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Post by cjensen »

This thread is going to put a real damper on my self-image.Image

:lol:
Chad Jensen
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rv8or
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Post by rv8or »

cjensen wrote:
I've come to realize that I'm not building to save expenses like I thought I would. Airplanes are expensive, no matter what you are building/flying. BUT, the performance one gets with an RV is untouchable by ANYTHING else in this price range, certified or not. You could buy one heck of a nice certified airplane for this kind of money, but it won't do what an RV will do!



OK, I was going to stay out of the OSH ManLuv-in '07 talk, BUT, I have to say, this Chad guy is pretty smart (albeit, evidently not very good looking).

Sums it up PRECISELY for me...expected big $$$savings, realizing it ain't gonna happen, but in the end, look what you get relative to the alternatives.

Thanks boys--

J
Joe Ferraro
aka: "jferraro16"
DFW, RV-8A Fuse

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Post by Spike »

cjensen wrote: I've come to realize that I'm not building to save expenses like I thought I would.
If people are building cause its cheap, they are fooling themselves. I am constantly reminding myself of that.
Airplanes are expensive, no matter what you are building/flying. BUT, the performance one gets with an RV is untouchable by ANYTHING else in this price range, certified or not. You could buy one heck of a nice certified airplane for this kind of money, but it won't do what an RV will do!
Your statement is completely correct Chad, though it does not address what my point was. Though I don't know if you were responding to me or not.

My point was that for less money, in a partnership, you can get an airplane that performs as well as an RV (possibly better depending on your valuation criteria.) Especially today with the market declining. I figure the average RV has $80K in it. Lets go lower, lets say your target is $60. If you get three other guys to put out $45K, you get things like SR20's, DA40's, TB20, C210's ... right on down the line. That leaves you with $15K, which is in effect $60K for maintenance, etc.

My point is only that building an airplane to get an airplane is generally silly and asking for failure. There are many ways to get a good plane, for a great price, without having to build it.

Besides, reading too much of that RV-luv-fest stuff makes my tummy icky ... :mrgreen:
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cjensen
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Post by cjensen »

I agree with that 100% Spike. I was sort of addressing what you had said, but generally.

You are very correct in your point...IF you want partners. I've done that twice, and the first time was okay, the second time was a disaster. :roll:

Good point, none-the-less. 8)
Chad Jensen
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Post by Spike »

Personally, my partnership experience has generally been fantastic with cheaper flying, and generally there has been zero schedule conflict. A large partnership does greatly depend on the people which you get involved with.
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svanarts
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Post by svanarts »

Well my wife and I sat down and talked about some of the financial realities we are facing. And bottom line is, I was a bit optimistic in my estimation of our finances. Even if I sold the RV-4 right now I still wouldn't have enough to finish out the RV-7.

Also, If I look at the kind of flying I do, the kind of flying I want to do, and the the mission of RV's, they just don't really mesh up. I really enjoy boonie bouncing and I just can't do that in the RV-4. I won't be able to do that in the RV-7 either. There are a lot of really cool places around here that an RV just won't get into. That coupled with the fact that I can't afford to fly cross country really rules the RV out for me.

I haven't decided on the next project for certain yet (looking at Kitplanes directory right now) but the Zenith and RANS are in the running. I did make up my mind last night that the RV-7 wings and empenage are definitely going up for sale immediately.

If I go with the Zenith, it might be the perfect time to start RivetPoppers.com.
Scott VanArtsdalen
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smithhb
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My Story...Condensed

Post by smithhb »

Time for me to weigh in here...

Well, like many of you, I have done the partnership deal. Sure you get to own and fly a crappy airplane and justify it by telling yourself that it is cheap. I talked myself out of building an airplane for a long time.

My life is pretty simple. I got married out of college, had three kids and started working myself to death to make ends meet. Ten years later, I found myself divorced having lost everything I had worked for.

Two years later I met a wonderful woman (who had been twice divorced and now with a 10 year old son to raise). She must have seen something worthwhile in me because a year later we married. We both enjoyed backpacking so we spent nearly every weekend hiking and camping in the Blue Ridge mountains dreaming of one day building a log cabin.

She encouraged me to follow my dreams. Flying was one of those dreams. She really wasn't too keen on the flying part but she encouraged me none the less. A couple of years later, we bought property in the mountains. Four years after that we built our log home. I could now say that I had built a log home!

Image

I had always wanted my Instrument ticket and she encouraged me to pursue this until a year later I was filing IFR in the rented Spam cans. I had finally joined the very small fraternity of people who hold this distinction.

But I wanted the big kahuna... I wanted to OWN a plane, even a small part of a plane. Before long, I bought into a part of a Cherokee. The trouble was , the part I bought was always broken.

Image

Deciding to build an RV is a continuation of my Journey. It will probably never win a craftsmanship award or have the coolest panel, but it will always be something I can stand back and say that I built.

No one says you have to build a RV. But whatever you decide, just do it and say you did it.
Bret Smith
9A Flying (N16BL)
Blue Ridge, GA
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rv8or
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Post by rv8or »

Bret-

Are you FREAKING KIDDING ME!!!:o

If that was my house, I would never leave, no need for a plane. That thing is AWESOME! Looks like a cover photo for Log Homes Monthly.

Congratulations on fulfilling that dream. WOW.

Joe
Joe Ferraro
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cjensen
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Post by cjensen »

I just showed your house to my wife...talk about seeing a jaw drop! Dude, that IS one of the nicest homes, ALL aspects considered, that I (we) have ever seen!

WOW to say the least!!

8) 8) 8)
Chad Jensen
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RV7Factory
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Post by RV7Factory »

Bret, want to push them over the edge? Post some pictures of your shop. :mrgreen:
Brad Oliver
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RV7Factory
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Post by RV7Factory »

svanarts wrote:If I go with the Zenith, it might be the perfect time to start RivetPoppers.com.
Who knows, maybe I'll be a charter member. :)
Brad Oliver
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Post by 1:1_Scale »

see below :oops:
Last edited by 1:1_Scale on Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kelly
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1947 Stinson108-1 flying

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Post by 1:1_Scale »

painless wrote:As I have posted before, one of the quotes from a Lancair add from way back that kept me going was, "Sometimes in life you just have to say, 'Screw it....I'm doing this!'"
This ad?
Image

Bret, isn't that the home that Grizzly Adams lived in? :wink: I LOVE log homes :good job:
Kelly
RV-7 Empennage done, wings done, fuselage to QB stage
1947 Stinson108-1 flying

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Post by papakeith »

I think I've experienced most of the thoughts expressed here. If I hadn't started a project already, I don't know if I would take one on today.
too much money,
Fuel prices,
home budget getting thin due to increased energy costs.
etc.
Hell, I've been hemming and hawing for the better part of the last year on most of these issues hoping that I could iron some out. They have (somewhat) and I'm slowly getting back into the build. I get down on myself for the lack of progress, but it will get done when it gets done, and not before. The plane isn't my priority. God, Family, farm,firearms, flying, plane is the current order :).

I certainly won't be the one to cast stones if you decide to build a Patrol instead of an RV or the zenith or Rans. yep, Patrol. . . hmmmm :)
-------
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Post by Spike »

cjensen wrote: I'll be honest as well, and say that if I were starting today, I would be building a Sonex all the way. Flying for less than $30k! I'm $5k from that right now in my RV!!
Speaking of which, did you see the Waix in this months edition of Sport Aviation. Dude, it was sweet looking.

Spike
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cjensen
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Post by cjensen »

A you talking about the purple one on the completions section? Wayne Daniels' airplane. He's a good friend of my Sonex building friend, Jim Cunningham. I might get a chance to go the Sonex workshop in February, and stay at Wayne's house for the weekend. Never riden in a Sonex/Waiex before...
Chad Jensen
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Post by Spike »

No, I was talking about the Red one on the next page of completions section. It is a Waiex and it is beautiful.
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cjensen
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Post by cjensen »

Drew Waterworth's? That's the BEST looking paint job I've seen on an airplane, if that's the one you're referring to...

Don't have the copy in front of me.
Chad Jensen
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