First flight option

[cjensen]

I've been thinking about a first flight option lately...

Rather than making a full bore departure, what do you guys think of making a 50' or so departure, checking the controls, and landing?

Then I would taxi back to make the full go. I guess the main reason would be to quickly verify control and get the first landing out of the way and not have to deal with speed control for the first one (as much). I know I've seen videos of folks doing this, but wondered what the thoughts and GOOD reasons to consider this...runway length would obviously have to be adequate, which it is at KBMI.

[bullojm1]

Hey Chad-

What do you mean by "Checking the controls"? After all your meticulous buiding and rigging, combined with the great eyes you have had on your project, you shouldn't have anything to worry about with the controls. If you ask me, I think its more dangerous to take off and land on the same runway length. Lots of pressure condensed into a shortening runway. Nothing like coming in for a landing with the whole runway in front of you!

I think if you are seriously considering this, it may be worthwhile to hire a test pilot.

[aerial]

Hey Chad, I got a couple of looks at your progress and want to say congratulations on the build! Nice looking plane!

My opinion (limited as it is) being a experimental pilot all the way (I learned to fly in a Bushby Mustang II of all things). I wouldn't do the take off landing thing all on the same runway the first time. Asking for trouble. If anything I would go up and do some slow flight and stalls, then bring it around on a nice stable approach carrying a little extra speed, if everything is not perfect when the tires are about to touch, push it to the board and go around until you get it right.

We had a local guy who spent 5 years building a Glasair III who decided to have a test pilot do high speed taxi tests first. The test pilot blew a brake line trying to slow down on a fast one, rolled off into the grass and the thing lit on fire. No insurance. $100k and 5 years up in flames. As he was standing there watching his plane burn he turned to his wife and said. "Well honey, it's no longer a money pit."

Sadest builder story I ever heard.

[Thermos]

Chad,

Mike and Duane are spot-on, doing a "hop" adds complication and risk you don't need to add for your first flight.

You should definitely plan a land-back as an emergency procedure if you need it, but for a first flight I'd keep things as simple and stable as possible. If you've built and rigged the airplane to plans, checked your weight and balance and done a thorough preflight, the risk that you'll have serious control problems is likely outweighed by the risks of an rushed and maybe unstable approach and landing. It's all about risk management.

My $0.02 from several years planning and conducting flight tests for Uncle Sugar's Air Force...

Hope this helps,

Dave

[cjensen]

I think if you are seriously considering this, it may be worthwhile to hire a test pilot.

Another option worth considering, but this is all just discussion based...I plan to do it.

Just wanted to get some opinions on this technique because there isn't much of anything written about it. If I recall correctly, Dan C. did just this and is where I think I remember seeing the video...

[hydroguy2]

We kind of did that with the Rans I helped build.

Plan for take-off. Roll the throttle on, rotate slightly to fly off the ground. Once Neil was barely in the air (3'). he cut the throttle and held his attitude and touched back down. He never tested the controls, mostly just a crow hop to ensure there wasn't some weird uncommanded pitch up. Taxi'd back and took off normal. He's done lots of 1st flights the same way.

He's theory is: this is as slow as you'll be going if something bad is going to happen.

[Thermos]

If I recall correctly, Dan C. did just this and is where I think I remember seeing the video...

I remember from his first flight writeup that he landed back because he got a "high oil pressure" alarm from his engine monitor - turned out to be an incorrectly-set alarm limit.

[Brantel]

Chad,

The only way I would do that is if my engine quit.... Get in climb to pattern at about 85-90 knots (normally you will climb faster to cool the heads but for the first one this will be ok) altitude is your friend on a first flight!!! Once at pattern if everything is ok, relax and let her accelerate to about 125 knots and climb on up to around 3000 agl and fly her around and feel her out.

Wind it up and run it hard!!!

If the controls move the right way, are centered properly at neutral, don't bind etc. You will have no problem with the airplane.

When you are ready to land... On downwind pull the power back...way back and hold alt till you speed gets into the white. About abeam the numbers get all the flaps out and hold 80knots. On mine solo I have to bump the up trim. Keep the pattern close so if the engine quits, you can make the field. On final RV's can sink fast so watch that. Keep her about 75 knots till you cross the fence then go by feel. You got a long runway so no rush getting her down. I recommend a three pointer for your first landing.

Hold her off and keep her straight and if you bounce a little, thats about normal for an RV. If you bounce alot just don't fight it, no shame in going around!!! If it ballons up hold the three point attitude just like it is sitting on the ground and ad a little power to cushion it on the way back down. Not too much or you will be flying again. Most important is keep it straight and you won't bend anything....

Come back in and grin, video, pictures, hugs kisses, beverages ect...Then pull the top cowl off and check for any issues or leaks.....After the rush wears off, fly her again!!!

[bullojm1]

Dan C. did just this and is where I think I remember seeing the video...

Nope, Dan C did a full takeoff on his first flight. When he was at altitude I believe his engine monitor crapped out, so he came in for a landing.

[aerial]

After thinking about it I should not have brought up the Glasair story. Poor judgment, you don't need any other "thoughts" with all the excitement of your first flight. You will be just fine, maybe a little nerve racking, but after the first time around it will all turn into confidence.

The 3' takeoff/landing sounds OK, but if you go 50' you might as well fly it and use the whole runway! After flying the Cherokee, bets are you are going to come in way too hot on the first time around anyway and need the whole runway.

[Bob Barrett]

Since I didn't have a medical and still dont , I hired a test pilot and he took it up stayed in the pattern for about 20 minutes and landed. At that point he had an estimated stall speed and some other factors. We pulled the top cowl and everything checked out. Put it back together and the test pilot flew another hour. He did some rolls and a loop everything checked out. A friend was flying chase in his RV-6A and got a video of the first roll, which I still treasure!

[TomC]

Chad,

There is no 100% safe way to make the first flight. That being said, if you have faith in the design, faith in your building techniques, faith in your pilot skill, and faith in the almighty, there is nothing to do except go for it. The pucker factor will be high but your senses and concentration will also be at their max levels. Before I would try the 50' flight in your RV, take a Cessna/Piper out and try the same thing. I don't think you'll like the feeling or experience. Like Brian said, carry some extra speed and power on your first final. A final speed of around 75-50 knots would be good. Other than that, take a deep breath and let 'er rip!

Good Luck!

[cjensen]

Good discussion and points fellas! I probably should've clarified in my original post (what's new... ), but this is something that a buddy of mine and I were talking about in the hangar on Saturday...more of a 'What if?' kinda thing. I began thinking more about it, and wondered if it had been done/was feasible. Sounds like it's not the best thing to do...maybe in something a lot slower like an old Piet-type design or whatever.

First flight will go on as planned!

I'm hoping that my experience in several high performance airplanes since I owned the Cherokee (six years ago) will aid in the first approach!

[Bob Barrett]

Good luck on your inspection tomorrow! Have you arranged the transition training? I can still give you some help in that regard if needed just telephone me.

[Spike]

Good luck Chad. I am with these guys, full throttle and then an approximate Vy until you are a few thousand feet. Then start breathing again. Altitude is time, being 50 feet up isn't much time.

Spike