Who's doin' SMOKE!!??

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:31 pm

Okaaaayyy...

Back to smoking airplanes...I've read the stuff I can find on the internet, and it seems that several people are making good use out of a salvaged washer-fluid tank. The plumbing should be relatively easy, and then a nozzle in to the exhaust pipe. I will have a backup battery in my system anyway...wonder if I could use that to power a small pump? Or would I need a third small (like motorcycle) battery to dedicate to it?

Not really concerned about what type of oil to burn at this point...just want ideas for the system itself...

tmbg · Post by **tmbg** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:22 pm

I think you should be concerned about what type of oil now, that way you can be sure that your pumping equipment is up to the task!

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:39 pm

tmbg wrote:I think you should be concerned about what type of oil now, that way you can be sure that your pumping equipment is up to the task!

Pump yes, plumbing...won't matter. AL tubing will be used, and any plastic or fiberglass container will hold any of the oils commonly used.

tmbg · Post by **tmbg** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:43 pm

I'd mostly be concerned with whether a washer fluid tank would have large enough orifices, and whether the pump could handle the oil... washer fluid isn't the highest viscosity fluid ever...

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:52 pm

That's true, but they have been used for years by many people that report they work fine. I will certainly make sure whatever I use is compatible, and the pump would be something to consider down the road a bit.

Good point Ian...

tmbg · Post by **tmbg** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:05 pm

<---------- mastar of teh obvious! : D

Brantel · Post by **Brantel** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:05 pm

I learned allot about smoke when trying to get great smoke on my giant scale (40%) model aircraft.

Trick is to get the media hot right before injecting it into the exhaust and to have just the right flow of media. This is easy on full scale but harder in models.

We tried true smoke fluid, kerosene, diesel fuel, burnt motor oil, mixtures of each, etc. The commercial fluids always produced the best smoke. They were also best for the airplane belly.

jakec · Post by **jakec** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:31 pm

The link below is to a description of how a Pietenpol builder and flyer cracked the nut. I know some people who have seen it in action and were pretty impressed.

http://nx770cg.com/SmokeSystem.html

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:46 pm

GREAT link Jake!!! Thanks! That's just about perfect for what I'm thinkin'!!

JohnR · Post by **JohnR** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:09 am

The article says their isn't much residue that gets on his fuselage either, the worst is the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer. Hmmm, guess it might not be to bad after all.

Now it looks like I have another item o nthe list of things to do.

jim_geo · Post by **jim_geo** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:43 am

I love this thread. My guess is that it smokes (what ever "it" is) because there isn't enough oxygen to support an actual flame, what with the oxygen being used up in the initial reaction in the cylinder and all. The smoke is probably to rich an environment and by the time it's lean enough to burn it's to cool. Just a guess.

On the subject of burning brush. My backyard got really overgrown; so I cleared it and piled it up. I decided to burn the brush rather than haul it. However, it was early in the season and the brush was still quite wet. I started by throwing gasoline on the pile but it quickly burned off after the initial flash

and did no real damage to the brush. A friend of mine said "just use some diesl" so happy and dumb I went and got me a gallon of the green stuff. I covered that pile with about 3/4's of it and lit it thinking that "diesl isn't all that flamable". Well it starts slow but kind gets going like a train running down hill with no brakes. I had a garden hose handy and I'm damn glad I did cause when the fire department came running into my back yard and the Cheif told me "PUT THAT #@*( %^$# FIRE OUT" I was able to comply. Probably the only thing that saved me from getting a ticket right then and there was that garden hose. Moral of the story, wait till the neighbors have left for the day before touching off diesl

.

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:31 am

Hahahahaha!

OMG Jim! That is a fricken riot!

Nice experiment there. You now know how oil burns. Maybe you should have thrown an old tire in there too. I have never done that either!

CJ

Brantel · Post by **Brantel** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:18 am

For you guys that like to play with accelerants and brush fires, here is what can happen:

3 days later

and 7 days later

I can assure you that in that first pic, there was some severe pain going on. And yes CJ, I needed another haircut on that day!

weezbad · Post by **weezbad** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:51 am

brantel,
that had to hurt.

however, please indulge us with the rest of the story. id like to be able to relay this to others as a learning experience... like trying to get guys not to use carb cleaner to set their friends on fire. beleive it or not 19 yo students do some crazy crap.

Brantel · Post by **Brantel** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:33 am

weezbad wrote:brantel,
that had to hurt.
however, please indulge us with the rest of the story. id like to be able to relay this to others as a learning experience...

Yes it did hurt. The short story goes like this...

Had a warm late fall day so the family and I spent the entire day cleaning out gutters, raking leaves etc.

About 4:00pm I decided to burn the large pile of leaves that we had so I attempted to get them going. Unfortunately they were a little wet so I decided to add some "fuel" to the fire. Know better to use gas, did not have any kerosene or diesel laying around and would never use my precious airplane solvents on burning leaves. So... I had a jug of 10 year old 15% nitro model airplane fuel just sitting there waiting for me to make a mistake.

I poured this stuff all over the leaves and lit it off. No problem as the alcohol in this stuff burns at a reasonable rate. The nitro was most likely gone as this bottle had been opened and was about 10 years old.

So all is going to plan, leaves are burning, family is watching me from a distance... So there I was standing there holding this empty jug and without thinking I threw it in the fire.

All goes well while I am standing there, I realise that the open nozzel of the jug is pointed straight at me and about the instant I thought this, it poofed and sprayed hot burning mist all over my face. The jug never moved, I was 15 feet away from the fire, at first it felt just like hot air hitting me in the face when all of a sudden I knew I was on fire.

I smacked it out and thought I was OK but my wife looked at me and said "Oh my God!" Your face is burnt bad. I looked into the rear view window of my truck and saw shreds of meat hanging loose.

About then is when the pain kicked in and I can tell you that it was horrible for several hours. Almost to the point of being untolerable.

I feel fortunate that my wife and six year old daughter were not hit in the blast, they were standing on the other side of the fire about 15 feet away as well and it could have easily been them. I would not have been able to live with myself if they had been injured. I was also lucky that I was apparently able to get my eyes closed just in the nick of time. My eyelids were burnt but not my eyes.

Don't play around with flamable stuff! It can get you and get you bad!

I know I was stupid, but smart people do stupid stuff correct? After all, I think most will have to admit that they have done stupid stuff as well sometime in their life....

TomC · Post by **TomC** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:47 am

Here is another link. It does not have much detail but you can get some ideas.

http://www.kcdawnpatrol.org/smoke.htm

Good Luck!

tmbg · Post by **tmbg** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:14 am

Brantel,

does your hair grow backwards? The time sequence certainly suggests so!

Brantel · Post by **Brantel** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:29 am

tmbg wrote:Brantel,

does your hair grow backwards? The time sequence certainly suggests so!

Haha, The first two are with long overdue for a cut (I tend to forget about getting a cut when there is a plane to work on), the last one is post cut. The second one just looks different because I was all groomed up for work and it is a wierd cell phone photo.

JohnR · Post by **JohnR** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:21 pm

Dude, that looks painful! I'm surprised it didn't take the hair off for you. Fire is nothing to mess with, thats for sure.

My first memory is of coming in one winter day when I was 4 years old and my Mom smelling smoke while she was taking my red rubber boots off. Twenty minutes later our house was in the basement. Burning brush piles and the like is something I actually enjoy but I do have a healthy respect for the damage a fire can do if not shown proper respect.

Be careful out there.

jim_geo · Post by **jim_geo** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:45 pm

Guess I'm not going to tell ya anything about pipe bombs

.

RivetBangers.com

Who's doin' SMOKE!!??

ouch

Re: ouch

Another Link