Isnt life ironic ... vansairforce.net forums...

[Spike]

I guess many of you have seen that Doug Reeves unveiled a set of new web based forums today on the vansairforce site. Apparently they are going to phase out the Yahoo! groups over some period of time. Frankly I have to say that I'm a bit suprised by this move especially if you look at his entry for 10/25 on the vansairforce page here. A quote:

There are several message boards, web forums, email lists, Usenet groups, etc. that offer additional features and I've researched them all, but I still recommend 1) my RV Yahoo groups if you want a moderated environment and 2) Matt Dralle's Matronics Email Lists if you want an unmoderated environment. It's a noble goal to have one, all inclusive list that serves everyone's needs, but my experience indicates otherwise.

...

In situations like this my thoughts always go to the early 60's when the United States spent over one million dollars (1960 dollars) to develop an ink pen that would work in the weightlessness of space. When presented with the same problem the Soviets used a pencil.

Some of you might not know but I originally tried to work with Doug when I was setting up this site. I wont get into specifics because it really doesnt need to be repeated as it wouldnt serve much purpose. Lets just say that it didnt work out and I was for the most part ignored and squelched.

I dont know how you guys will feel about having the need for two or three boards for us Vans builders and I suspect that with his following the new forums will take off like a rocket. This is a good thing for him and Im sure he will enjoy the added community that this system will provide for the "airforce".

Please know though that I am not going to shut down rivetbangers.com unless its decided by our membership that its no longer needed. We will still continue to offer our site & galleries free for use, free from advertisers, and without membership requirements for participation. Thanx for being members guys and gals and thanx for making this a fun place to hang out.

Keep banging those rivets!!
-- John & Patti

[aerial]

Yes politics, which involves control ("you do me a favor and I will do you a favor"). I am "brand spanking new" to the aviation world, but the one thing I really like about the eaa crowd is that they seem to look out for "the little guy". In that money or influence is not the deciding factor to flying or building your own plane. I'm thankful. I am sure rivetbangers will be around as long as it provides good answers to building questions, and that only comes from experienced builders, of which we are all going to become or already are. I personally enjoy visiting this forum to relax a little after work. And it's helped to keep my eye on the goal of finishing my kit when I finally get the time.

Thanks.

p.s. Everytime I go to the VansAirForce page it is really really slow and cluttered. I like clean concise websites that I can immediately find things that are useful or that I am interested in.

[Spike]

Politics suck

I hope to never get into it here. Make sure that if it ever starts getting political around here that you guys whack me across the noggin or something.

-- John

[captain_john]

I'll be honest. I set up a user account "over there". Let's face facts, I am a loudmouth in this environment. I like forums. I HATE Yahoo! formats.

This site has a nice personal feel to it and I plan on staying. I also like the PICTURE POSTING ABILITY! The visual impact is tremendous when trying to explain something technical.

I do also plan on dropping in on the other one regularly as well.

KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK, Spike and Patti!

CJ

[Doakes]

I tried to bring up the URL for the "force" site and I still did not have it after about 3 min. It may be that my dial up system is a little slow tonight or if it continues then I will probably not even consider it.

I do not need to look at 2-3 different sites each day just to find out how or what is happening. One is sufficient.
My thought-worth nothing.
Dave

[Dan A]

John,
Did you notice that Reeves new fourm site nearly mirrors this site? Huummmmm, Interresting!!
Dan

[Spike]

CJ, a high post count does not make a loud mouth. I would say that you are no where near a loud mouth. And please dont think you need to hide from me that you have an account over there. I dont look at that as a negative thing at all.

John,
Did you notice that Reeves new fourm site nearly mirrors this site? Huummmmm, Interresting!!
Dan

Being that I'm trying to pick my words wisely on this issue Ill just say that I think this is some confirmation that we are on the right track as far as layout and topics of discussion.

-- John

[arffguy]

John,
Did you notice that Reeves new fourm site nearly mirrors this site? Huummmmm, Interresting!!
Dan

Spike, I wonder if you and Doug are using the same software. Judging from the questions and technical issues he has been working on it would seem to be the case. Personally I use every RV resource I can find. I appreciate you starting this one. Keep up the good work

[Spike]

They are actually different solutions though have many of the same features. Both are implimented using PHP with some DB driving the backend. Looking more closely it is apparent that it is using the same system that rvaero.com is using which is different than this one.

Ours is phpBB which is a freely available solution where vBulletin (vansairforce & rvaero) are licensed products which are purchased. As such the others a probably a bit more feature rich though there are more net surfers out there comming up with modifications and such for ours. We also probably have a bit more flexability in changing the site to suit our functional needs.

-- John

[spikescopilot]

Just posting what's on my mind.


What a long, strange trip it's been....

It started off with Spike trying to discuss forums as an alternative on the Yahoo! Groups. No one seemed to want to even talk about it, so he asked me to set up a forum for him on his website (www.spikesplace.org). We had talked about getting a fourth domain name to use for our builders log .. but Spike thought it would be cooler to get a domain name for the forum instead. After a week of screwing around, I finally got the database software installed and configured, and the forums (these forums) setup for him.

We were waiting for the DNS entries for rivetangers.com to propogate when the announcement of RV Aero hit the Groups. I visited the site, and it really took the wind out of my sails. Their site looked so much nicer than ours. RB was a rinky-dink personal website with a single image on the the front, and a hit counter that started at 00000. All of that work, only to be beaten by mere hours.....if only I had worked quicker to get the forums online and the domain name ordered.

From that first day (when we had practically no visitors, and even fewer new members), through the following two weeks, was quite a roller coaster ride. We went from practically no traffic to 500 hits per day when Van's Aircraft featured us on their website... and that was just week one. We went from 500 hits per day to nearly 2000 when we were featured on the EAA and AOPA weekly newsletters simultaneously. To be honest, as the server admin, I didn't know if I should be happy or hide and cry when I found out about the newsletters. Given the distribution, I was fearing the worst; but our server did ok, and our friend Alan (who owns it) didn't get mad.

Eventually, the traffic died down, and people started posting regularly. We were able to sit back and look at this thing we had done, and smile. Are we the most successful forum on the internet? Absolutely not. But we had users who were coming back to post, and that made us immensely happy -- people were asking questions and getting good answers. People were talking. It was a good thing.

And then John emailed me this morning and told me about the vansairforce site. I would be lying if I said that it didn't bother me. It did.... I've ... actually, we've worked so hard to get this site going, and I felt like I was looking at the very death of it. Vansairforce is the website that everyone goes to. Not that we really want to compete -- but really, we can't compete with that.

Whether this site stays or withers up and dies, I'm still proud of what we were able to accomplish. Whether anyone wants to admit it, I am certain that Rivetbangers and its members are responsible for VA moving to forums; and I think that's a good thing.

Anyway, those are my ramblings. Thank you guys for the kind words -- we truely appreciate your support. We're not here to sell advertising, or make money; Spike just wanted forums instead of email, and as long as you guys continue to visit, Rivetbangers will be here.

[nightflyer]

John and Patti, all I know is that I feel comfortable here. Elsewhere there are arguments and negativity ; who needs it? I have a feeling that rivetbangers.com is going to be just fine !

[svanarts]

Take heart, Patti! There's plenty of room on the Internet for everyone. You've got a nice, clean, FAST forum here with not a lot of clutter. RB will do just fine.

[jim_geo]

I love it here. Nobody tells me to shut up.

[Snap]

I AINT MOV"N I TELLS YA!!!!! I AINT!

[spikescopilot]

I love it here. No body tells me to shut up.

Um....shut up?

[svanarts]

Alright Spike and CG, you guys really want your day made? Hope over to the VainsAirForce group (intentional misspelling) on Yahoo Groups. There's a tempest brewing about the very public yahoo group being shut down to force everyone to use a very private website. You might find it an entertaining read. I did.

[spikescopilot]

Alright Spike and CG, you guys really want your day made? Hope over to the VainsAirForce group (intentional misspelling) on Yahoo Groups. There's a tempest brewing about the very public yahoo group being shut down to force everyone to use a very private website. You might find it an entertaining read. I did.

Holy smokes!! To be honest, given his response (or lack of?) to Spike about the forums, I was shocked to see that Doug was going to kill off the email groups in favor of forums. I guess his email users were surprised as well. Those posts don't make my day, but the response from his users was definately interesting. But I guess I can understand why -- they've been using YG since the beginning of time, and without much of a prior mention, they're facing the end of the Groups.

Email and forums can co-exist .. there are dozes of BMW Motorcycle email lists and web forums on the internet; there is plenty of room for both the Yahoo! Groups and a few web forums for RV builders as well. The internet is a big place, and each forum/email list is going to cater to the needs of different groups of people; it's not an all-or-nothing thing.

Just, wow.

It wouldn't bother me if we never had another new user, and just stayed the same size little community that we are. Spike's got his forum, and his builder website, so he's happy.

I guess that yesterday when I saw the VA website, I felt like our little world had crashed down. VA is a huge website with a huge following (although the ads are a tad annoying), and I just figured that with forums there, no one would ever have a reason to come back here. But you guys are proving me wrong, and I thank you for that.

BTW -- we're working on those business cards if anyone wants them to hand out. I'll let you know when they're finished, and you can PM us for some copies. Thanks again for everyone, for your support; we love you guys -- you're awesome!

[Spike]

I definately found it interesting. I'm not necessarily wanting to see them pained or put in termoil though its a bit nice to see that Im not the only one that went through it. The email groups work very well for some people and I do think the web based forums should be offered as an option to the email systems, not as a replacement. This medium is in my opinion a better one, but I dont think it should be the "only" one.

-- John

[Dan A]

I, like a lot of us, belong to several groups. I hae tried the RVAreo group but find them boring as you need to be a member to post a message. And I see very few posts. I have belonged to the Yahoo group for several years and enjoy it. But the Rivit Bangers forum is easy to get around in and is more fun! Hang in there!! I think we will survive and enjoy it along the way
Dan