Nosedraggers... what are you thinking?

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captain_john
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Nosedraggers... what are you thinking?

Postby captain_john » Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:03 pm

What's up with all these "A" Builders?

Honestly now! I think that the majority of new kits being started are nosedraggers!

I am building a taildragger, and I can't wait to fly it!

I know you nosedraggers feel the same way, but I wanna hear why.

My reasons are:

It is more fun. Yes, I do consider crosswind landings fun.

It is more challenging.

It is nostalgic.

Not everyone can fly it.

It looks cool.

Pulling it into my hanger tail first by the tailwheel is just really cool!

Why are your reasons for building what you are building?

8) CJ
Last edited by captain_john on Mon May 02, 2005 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Dan A » Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:47 pm

Okay CJ, ----- So you want to start another one! :mrgreen: I fly tail draggers because I like them !! :lol: :lol: Also I like off improved field landings and taildraggers are best for that kind of flying.
Yea Taildraggers!! :yay:
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Postby Guest » Sat Jan 29, 2005 10:41 am

I chose the A because I like my house. That's right, my house. See, If you don't have a lot of tail time they wont insure you, and if they do it will be thousands more. Reality soak's in, and I realize it's only on it's tail in the hangar and the nose gear only cost's 2 knots. Well that math is simple enough for me!! :bang: :bang: :bang: :lol:

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Nosedraggers...what are you thinking?

Postby wurger » Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:34 pm

I'm checked out in conventional gear and I am leaning towards a 7A rather than a straight 7. My reasons are:

1 The performance trade off is minimal.

2 I am told, though I personally have not checked, that insurance is considerably cheaper.

3 Why increase the risk of an accident? I have two friends both with 6As. Believe me when I say they get enough attention when they pull their planes out of the hanger.

4 It's about the flying, not so much the landing

But I could change my mind tomorrow!! :wink:

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Postby Spike » Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:18 pm

What am I thinking? Oh, primarily that Im smarter. ;) Just kidding. What Im thinking is that Ill be impressed if my building abilities dont short me more speed than that nose gear will. I also think that it will cost less to insure. I also think that while the TD's are prettier, I dont see a need to add any complexity in the TA/Landing phases of flight if I dont need to. Yup, they are pretty all right, Ill just look at yours and then be happy cause mine wont ground loop :mrgreen:
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Postby arffguy » Sat Jan 29, 2005 10:01 pm

I'm thinking this:

1. I have zero tailwheel time and have only flown low performance Cessnas. The extra insurance isn't worth the cost.
2. I have under 300 hours-which seems to be the point the insurance rates drop.
3. Finding a tailwheel airplane to train in, let alone rent, in my area is tough.
4. I can't stand taxiing around craning my neck (when I do get a ride.) In other words I like to see where I am going on the ground a little better.
5. Alan Tolle (who built six or seven RV's) told me years ago that the nosewheel was what he preferred.
6. My wife has an easier time getting in the nosegear models. She has rheumatoid arthritis. The extra slant of the TD seems to make entry and exit worse for her.
7. A friend of mine who has built two airplanes (both TD) got complacent after 2000 hours in his first one and tipped it up on its nose. Can you say new engine and prop? He used to refer to the -A models as "Donkey D***ks. Funny, I never hear him say that anymore.
8. Just like my decision (back and forth) to go with the tilt canopy-I want to fly it not taxi it around.
and finally:
8. My second one can be the taildragger :wink:
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Postby captain_john » Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:37 am

Please don't take it personally. I posed this question somewhat "tounge in cheek" as they say.

I strongly believe driving the Citabria has made me a better pilot and am glad to do whatever is needed to make and own my -7. I think that it will make me an even BETTER pilot.

They say there are 2 kinds of TD pilots, those that have groundlooped and those that will. If I could remain in the second category for my entire life, I would be happy.

Question:

The same goes for retracts and wheel up landings. Will that keep you from getting a complex sign off?

Trikes are prone to nosegear collapse. No one has mentioned that at all.

There is no doubt that taxiway visibility is comprimised. I am willing to accept that. As far as insurance costs, after your firt 300 TT / 50 TW it is pretty much negligable. In my leisure, I plan to get some quotes just for conversation fodder. I think it will help others on this board make up their own minds. If anyone has gotten quotes, please tell us what they were.

Just fueling the fire.

Do you have a complex sign off? I do. I don't plan on landing gear up soon, either.

:wink: CJ
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Postby Spike » Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:53 am

Hmmm, whats your definition of "prone" ? And this is obviously all tongue in cheek
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Postby captain_john » Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:04 am

Prone...apt to or likely.

As Merriam Webster says:

having a tendency or inclination : being likely

You know, plain english.

Why do you ask? Where is this bringing us now that you have baited me and painted me into a corner!

:wink: CJ
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Postby Spike » Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:36 am

Just that Ive heard of 3 or so A variants where the nose wheel collapsed. Most if all of those were due to issues with construction, wheel pant fit, or pilot error. Out of 3K+ flying RV's, where the majority of them are A variants, I dont think prone is the right word to use.
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Nosedraggers... what are you thinking?

Postby Guest » Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:18 am

I think I can land shorter in a trike than I can in a conventional gear.

If the time to sell ever comes, I think a trike increases my odds for resale. :cry:

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Postby captain_john » Sun Jan 30, 2005 11:22 am

I entirely agree... a trike WILL sell faster than a TD.

Just a guess, but methinks builders are preferring trikes to TD's.

:) CJ
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Postby hngrflyr » Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:16 pm

I've been flying tailwheel airplanes for 48 years and have never groundlooped. (knock on wood) I've ridden through one when another pilot was flying. That one was due to an A&P screwing up and putting the wrong brake fluid in during annual inspection. When we landed one brake was locked tight! He lifted that wheel off and took off again, then landed in the grass at the side of the runway so he wouldn't tear the airplane up. Didn't harm a thing.
My RV-6 is one of the easier tailwheel airplanes I've flown. Ya just have to educate your feet, and fly the ailerons till the plane stops. If you just sit there, the plane is sure to roll itself up in a ball of wreckage.

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Postby arffguy » Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:09 pm

Captain_John wrote:Please don't take it personally. I posed this question somewhat "tounge in cheek" as they say.

I strongly believe driving the Citabria has made me a better pilot

:wink: CJ


Oh I didn't take it personally myself. It's a valid question that has been argued endlessly. I do believe that the TD training makes you a better pilot. No doubt about that at all. Some airline pilots swear that they can tell whether their cohorts have flown tailwheels or not. I also forgot to mention that I think that this airplane project is going to tax my money to the extreme and if I can save some on insurance I will. I know that it costs more to build the -A model up front though. And of course the TD is easier to fit the landing gear on so you got us there.

Oh yeah, I absolutely agree with Hngflyr's comments above.
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Postby aerial » Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:46 pm

Because they are taildraggers. Most of the famous classics are taildraggers, depicting speed, adventure, and heroism. I'm learning how to fly because I want to be a pilot, an aerobat, a yank. If you are going to spend all this time and money building a plane you should love it, especially the way it looks. I had an instructor tell me any plane with a tail on it's rear is cool. It tells people your a real pilot. :mrgreen:
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Postby arffguy » Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:44 pm

{rant mode on}OK now I am taking it personally. :bang: You just had to bring that "real pilot" thing out didn't you? :stone: Curse you CJ for getting me on a rant.:P A "real pilot" is somone who will fly anything-just to get up in the air. As far as "classics" go I have to say I did some research. The first 150's were built in 1957 but all of them built between 1957 and 1959 were sold as 1959 models. The Piper Tri-pacer was built between 1951 and 1960. The most numerous airplane ever made to this date has a nosewheel (the 172 of course.) Can you believe that is 50 years? You have to remember that back in the earlier days flying was sold as an adventure, spaceflight was a dream or in its early infancy. The mass media machine as we know it didn't exist. Every kid wanted to be a fighter pilot. Buck Rogers and all that you know. Times are different now. These days its hard to get students who want to fly. I tell my nephews about it and they could not care less. To them an airplane takes them to exotic places. "White sandy beaches" they say. The airline industry takes aviating so for granted that a one minute delay pushing off the gate has to be held accountable to someone. They make a big game of it too. Not that they really care if the passengers get delayed. Flying is not special to most people anymore. Neighborhoods try to get local airports closed. And a lot of people (like my sisters) are scared to death of it. They just can't fathom why anybody would want to fly for fun. Also, I love the way the RV looks on a nosewheel. My RV group had a gathering and one of the guys parked a 172 on the line. It looked like an absolute pig parked next to RV's clean lines. Fat round head rivets, steps and handles for fueling and grime all over it. I like all the RV's. I want one of each. Heck, I want a Rocket too. The tailwheel is not better looking, just different. And anybody who says I'm not a "real pilot" obviously doesn't know me very well. {rant mode off}
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Postby Spike » Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:47 pm

:werd: What he said.
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Postby aerial » Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:19 am

To play the other side of the record.....The RV-9A that I flew at Van's was the smoothest nicest plane I have ever flown or been in. (Which maybe isn't saying much because the list is only a dozen long.) Whatever their configuration was it was a silk glove with virtually no vibration, and a little burst of power on landing made the touch-down hard to tell when the wheels actually made contact. It really flew, we pulled a couple of G's in a 45+ deg. 360 turn, did some slow flight, and a couple of stalls and I was really impressed.

By now days standards, I guess "real pilots" are fighter jocks (I'm too old) or have a captain's uniform from one of the airlines. I guess as close as I am going to get is having a throttle on my left hand, stick in my right, wing-over rolls, and having the tail come up before it's ready to fly.

Aviation may be the one of the last bastions of freedom for the hotrod. As far as I know they are not righting tickets for airspeed or having your hood too high. 8)
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Postby captain_john » Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:50 am

:lol:

Looks like I am getting people to think!

Na na na NAAAA NAAAA

I can fly your plane but you can't fly mine!

:P CJ
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Postby Spike » Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:46 am

Only if I let you. And besides, we can fly your plane, we just might only be able to do it once. :evil:
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