Nosedraggers... what are you thinking?

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arffguy
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Post by arffguy »

l & d lewis wrote:NTSB generally does not respond to experimental aircraft accidents even if they're fatal. Experimental accidents are generally classified as limited accidents and handled remotely by talking to FAA personnel, and emergency responders, and witnesses.

Say what???????

NTSB reports experimental accidents and so does FAA. I would think that an aircraft accident is an aircraft accident regardless of what category the aircraft is registered in. Now you have peaked my curiousity. I will have to research further.

Has that been your experience in your area????
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aerial
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Post by aerial »

Hold it off, hold it off, hold it off, stall, land, let it run out. Don't use the brakes until you lose rudder effectiveness.

I am sure I have the least hours of anyone here, but my flight instructor has already indelibly imprinted in my mind that you land a Cessna 150 just like you would a taildragger. Land it on the mains, hold the nose wheel off as long as you can. When the nose drops keep the elevator FULL BACK! (Can you hear him yelling in my ear?)

On take off he would also nail me if didn't have the nose wheel off the ground within about 60 feet of applying full power.

Before he would solo me I had to demonstrate 5 perfect (mistake free) take-offs and landings. The first time, on landing number 3 (after nailing 2) I was doing the best glide I have ever seen, airspeed was perfect, turn to base 750ft., turn to final right at 500ft., dead on ....the air was so smooth....glide.....glide....glide......right into the ground....I forgot the landing flare....... I am sure you can bend one of those nose wheels.
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Post by Spike »

aerial wrote: On take off he would also nail me if didn't have the nose wheel off the ground within about 60 feet of applying full power.
Hmm, I wonder what the point is of that unless you want the aircraft to accelerate more slowly. Thoughts?
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arffguy
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Post by arffguy »

I think he is referring to a technique of reducing the possibility of nosewheel shimmy. Either that or he's talking about soft-field techniques.
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Post by Spike »

Yeah, it does sound like a soft field technique. I was under the impression that he meant to do this 100% of the time.
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l & d lewis
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Post by l & d lewis »

Sorry arffguy that's not my experience its my job, I write those reports for the NTSB. The Boards primary objective is the safety of the "flying public." (read family going on vacation/business traveler in an aircraft they have no control over) We expect pilots to have some idea of what they are getting themselves into. There are no set (certified) standards of construction/operation for experimental aircraft, and the "flying public" is not generally going to be flying in them, nor can they be hired out. Due to lack of standardization in construction ie. plans built/kit built/engine mods, and such the Board elects to handle these accidents on a limited basis. With a certificated airplane we have the ability to address a problem world wide, not so with an experimental. We're still not sure how we're going to handle light sport............Larry
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aerial
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Post by aerial »

arffguy wrote:I think he is referring to a technique of reducing the possibility of nosewheel shimmy. .....
Exactly, you could feel it shimmy if you kept it planted.
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hngrflyr
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Post by hngrflyr »

They just didn't want to replace the shimmy dampener. "If there is a known problem with the airplane, fix it."

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Post by Spike »

Here is why I don't personally want a tail dragger...

Image


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captain_john
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Post by captain_john »

That's high on the list of what NOT to do!

What were the circumstances?

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Nosedraggers... what are you thinking?

Post by Spike »

A witness says that he was doing his runup, somehow got hit with a tail wind, and the wind picked the tail up and put the prop into the ground. It seems quite plausible as nothing else, including the wings, seem to be touched. It was fairly windy too.

-- John

That's high on the list of what NOT to do!

What were the circumstances?

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captain_john
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Post by captain_john »

Hmmm, not buying it.

I was never warned of anything like that during my taildragger training, and it was pretty thorough. That isn't to say it isn't possible...

I will ask around.

Anyone else have an idea?

:? CJ
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Nosedraggers... what are you thinking?

Post by Spike »

Uh, you were not warned of what? You were not told to "climb into the wind" or "dive away from the wind" during ground ops? I wouldnt have too much trouble believing that a 20 kt wind from behind, with the controls in the wrong position, would put the plane on its nose.

-- John



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Hmmm, not buying it.

I was never warned of anything like that during my taildragger training, and it was pretty thorough. That isn't to say it isn't possible...

I will ask around.

Anyone else have an idea?

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captain_john
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Post by captain_john »

...that something as DRASTIC as that could happen.

Especially while a strong slipstream of propwash is BASKING the tail of relative wind in the appropriate direction.

Just doesn't make sense to me.

:? CJ
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Post by bmurrish »

Wow, it's amazing that the FAA still allows pilots to fly tail dragger. They seem so dangerous and frightening.
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Post by captain_john »

:lol: CJ
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Post by Spike »

Oh give it up guys, no-one said you shouldn't have a taildragger. All I said was that it wasn't the thing for me as I dont want to deal with such things.

I also don't think it happened while he was doing the mag checks. Most likely happened after he throttle back or something. Maybe he had the stick forward when he was doing the runup? Dunno. Regardless, my point stands in that an 'A' variant most likely wouldn't be affected in this manor regardless of cause.
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Post by spikescopilot »

Some boards have wars over religion and politics. But Rivetbangers? Oh no -- for us, it's primer and wheels. :lol:
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captain_john
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Post by captain_john »

Spike, please don't become agitated. I am just trying to learn from another's misfortune.

I am also wondering if he struck an object. This can also happen when taxiing off improved areas.

You gotta admit, that comment of Bill's WAS funny!

I still call this "playful banter", but if it is rubbing you (or others) wrong... I will can it for a while.

I fly 'em both and love it!

:good job: CJ
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Post by Guest »

A group of RV'S where lined up on the taxie way preparing for some formation flying. They where lined up at a 45 degree angle 2 deep ,when I heard the RV8 prop strike I tuned to see the tail high and when it came down the engine sounded like he was doing a runup because he reduced to idle and then shutdown.It was very windy all week and it was blowing almost directly from the rear. It is posible that he got caught off gaurd by the plane in front stopping.Everybody in front of him was parked in position and everybody behind him was still moving. I think it was too much rpm,a sudden panick stop and a strong tailwind but only the pilot knows for sure.

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