What am I missing?

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pat
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What am I missing?

Post by pat »

What is it that I'm not seeing? Every month just after I receive sport aviation magazine and I check the typical aviation websites I always seem to find a group tearing up their EAA cards declaring homebuilding and experimenting is no longer a priority. Here is what I see: advancement in avionics, jets, electric innovation, improved auto crossover parts and engines, safety advancement, materials advancement, fantastic video reference, workshops, seminars, space travel and the list goes on... ALL COMING FROM THE EXPERIMENTAL MARKET! I'm a life member and proud of it! Rant off.
Pat

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bruceh
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Post by bruceh »

I think if they would just keep the cover photo to experimental sport planes most of the controversy would cease. Putting a TBM, Warbird or DC-7 doesn't mesh with the name of the magazine. I have to admit, that I used to read the magazine from cover to cover when I got it (pre-internet). Now I hardly even glance at the magazine when it arrives. The information I can search and get online is so much more specific to what I need. If EAA had a magazine delete option on the membership, I would take it for a rebate (free Oshkosh ticket?).

I will continue to support EAA if nothing else for the advocacy they do for our aviation pursuits.
Bruce Hill
RV-9A N5771H flying over 1100 hours!
Build Log at http://www.overthehills.com/RV-9A-Project
Blog at https://flyingoverthehills.wordpress.com/
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Spike
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Post by Spike »

I do believe that alot of it has to do with the individual. I would be willing to bet that those who are no longer members or are not happy with the EAA may have had some life change that couples with their areas of dissatisfaction. I don't think the majority of those cases are going to be that EAA has just ticked them off. Maybe the aren't flying anymore, are struggling to afford flying, stopped a project, etc.

Something else that is changing that EAA has to deal with is the changing face of the aircraft ownership population. There are more EAB's now than ever, people are building them faster than the production birds are being sold. I think people always take that to mean that the EAB aircraft are accelerating in production, but it also means that the production of certified aircraft is coming down, and much of that is cost. But its not a one to one ration in my guestimation. I don't think we are picking up one EAB for ever certified production slot lost.

That creates a group of people who would pick up a new certified bird if they could (but can't) who also aren't going to be building an EAB in the near future. People exactly like me. My life circumstances have changed and I had to stop my project due to the arrival of my daughter and the business keeping me busy. That does not diminish my passion for home built / owner maintained / custom aircraft. The natural venue for us is to purchase older aircraft and rebuild / overhaul / and customize them within the FAR guidelines. This group wasn't something I understood at all until I was part of it.

Something else that plays part in this is that the EAB world, despite having a great selection of aircraft, electronics, and gizmos, does not have something for everyone. This was something else I realized when I gave up the project. One of my first thoughts was to purchase an already flying EAB for a family of 3 that is well equipped for IFR flight with a relatively recent set of avionics. Turns out that population of the EAB world is pretty darned small and commands very high prices. A first logical thought is RV-10 but those are $200K. In the production world there are any number of well cared for Bonanzas, Comanches, etc, that can do the same mission, can be fully equipped and refurbed (if not already done), for less cost than the equivalent EAB.

This may seem like a totally crazy concept, but currently, my membership to the EAA has lapsed and I haven't renewed it to date because it (and the magazine) didn't offer me tons of information / content outside of the EAB world. Every magazine that came reminded me of all the cool tech and stuff that no longer applied to this stage of my flying 'career' and it did so without giving me good content outside of the EAB arena. Everything written in that category was authored by num nutz whose track record was primarily composed of destroying Flying magazine. Though I do understand that EAA most likely brought him on for people like me. Funny how that worked out 'eh?

Thats not to say that I don't support the EAA, rather I do. Its just that I believe that the membership of an organization of that size represents many different places in life and that mix is constantly changing.

Anyway, just my perspective.

Build it, fly it, Love it.
Refurb it, fly it, Love it.

Really, those groups aren't much different and I would venture the guess that there are at least 4 other groups of people that EAA is trying to reach.

Spike
http://www.rivetbangers.com - Now integrating web and mail!
Current Build: 2 years into a beautiful little girl

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hydroguy2
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Post by hydroguy2 »

Youth is the key to the future. Get kids involved and they will find passion....at least that's my plan.



Grandson Austin was the first helper on kit# 72908. He helped me dimple the rudder back in 2007
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Then was instrumental in testing the panel layout mockup
Image

I remember this day, he came over and said. "if we're going to fly this thing, we better put the wings on"...so 20 minutes later, the 2 of us had both wing hanging.
Image

Work, school, distance and weather conspired against us. Yesterday they came up for the weekend and the wind died down. So Austin got to fly in N155BK. It was too bumpy for a high speed run, we went low and headed north to the Elk winter range. We saw about 400 head from 500agl, he thought that was cool as he gets to hunt this year.
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A little calmer on the way back and Austin got some stick time. 5 yrs since his first time flying a 172, he finally gets his first time in an RV, one he helped build! I snapped this pic and told him it looks like he pee'd himself. Great evening flight with the kid. Going to go look for mountain goats later, Mt Baldy is ~8500', we'll cruise past at 200agl.
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Brian
Townsend, MT

pat
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Post by pat »

Spike, I understand what you are saying about the individual choices we make. I once owned and rode several motorcycles but through individual choice I now focus on aircraft. Change happens to everyone and every association. I dont think im less passionate about EAA than I was when I joined or less passionate than others but when I read posts where others feel abandoned, pushed aside, less values or whatever... I question myself as to why I dont feel that way. It got me thinking about all the good regarding EAA which I why i posted what I did. I guess I just roll with the changes.
pat

Bob Barrett
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Post by Bob Barrett »

It is ironic that before and while I was building my RV-6A I was fortunate enough to attend every EAA Airadventure from 1990 through 2006. In 2007 and since in attempting to fund the completion of N784TB and since it has been flying since 5/9/2009 now any extra cash goes for fuel, insurance etc. When I sell it, I will probably be able to afford to attend Airadventure again. Money is always a factor in flying an airplane for most of us. EAA has provided me the way and the encouragement to build and fly N784TB. I will always be thankful. I have been able to participate in the Young Eagles program since 1993 and hope to be involved again after I sell my airplane. EAA has a lot going and Young Eagles and hopefully Old Eagles will be good for aviation. At 76 I may soon qualify as an old eagle.

DaAV8R
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I read this stuff too.........

Post by DaAV8R »

and I can't imagine we have many bitchin rights for $40.00 per year. I still prefer the paper tags we used to wear at Oshkosh to show we had paid the entrance fee. We used to give them to the guys coming in as we were leaving. I wonder why they stopped using those little paper tags? :wink:

Things change. The only thing that hasn't changed is I still like going to Oshkosh.

I try to avoid the politics and just enjoy the show. If I don't find anything in the magazine I like, I don't read it.

Robert

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cjensen
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Post by cjensen »

bruceh wrote:I think if they would just keep the cover photo to experimental sport planes most of the controversy would cease. Putting a TBM, Warbird or DC-7 doesn't mesh with the name of the magazine. I have to admit, that I used to read the magazine from cover to cover when I got it (pre-internet). Now I hardly even glance at the magazine when it arrives. The information I can search and get online is so much more specific to what I need. If EAA had a magazine delete option on the membership, I would take it for a rebate (free Oshkosh ticket?).

I will continue to support EAA if nothing else for the advocacy they do for our aviation pursuits.
I'm working TONS of overtime just to keep up with the web traffic on this topic...

The magazine has never, in it's history, held the cover exclusively for experimentals. The TBM was not on the cover (perhaps it shouldn't have been in the magazine at all, but there are a LOT of factors that led to that decision, one of which was the fact that that issue was to be the Reno issue...). Warbirds have been on the cover since the inception of Warbirds of America...I have the entire year from 1981 on my desk right now, and three of the covers are warbirds (ME109, Hellcat, and a T-28 ). The DC-7 is an antique/classic...a big, expensive one for sure, but antiques and classics have been on the cover forever as well.

My point is, putting just experimentals on the cover would not solve the issue. I hate to use the word diverse, but that's exactly what the membership is, and while there are plenty of other magazines and organizations out there that cater to the general aviation crowd, EAA puts the fun in it. Yes, that is my own personal opinion as well as EAA's feeling. 8)
Last edited by cjensen on Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chad Jensen
Missing my RV-7...
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Spike
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Post by Spike »

cjensen wrote: I'm working TONS of overtime just to keep up with the web traffic on this topic...
Glad we could help your career out buddy :)
cjensen wrote: My point is, putting just experimentals on the cover would not solve the issue. I hate to use the word diverse, but that's exactly what the membership is, and while there are plenty of other magazines and organizations out there that cater to the general aviation crowd, EAA puts the fun in it. Yes, that is my own personal opinion as well as EAA's feeling. 8)
Actually Chad I suspect that the majority of the pain here is finding out what the real issues even are. The reality in my opinion is that the the pilot population is changing more radically than the regulations, market place, and technology combined. We are getting older, crankier, and in many ways poorer (in relation to the cost of living) as time moves on. That is one hell of a target to keep up with from an organizational perspective without adding in the complexities of the changing industry.

One thing we all need to keep track of though is that we need to source our own enjoyment out of our hobbies and passions. That helps to keep things in a healthy perspective. Organizations are great but they shouldn't be the source of that passion or enjoyment. Otherwise it becomes harder and harder for your expectations to be met. One thing I have to admit is that my non-renewal of my EAA membership / chapter membership / etc (I also dropped all other flying magazines except the the AOPA one) has allowed me to turn down the noise and get back in touch with my first passion and refocus on why I got involved. Ill join EAA again, but in the mean time, I have to some extent had to re-learn where I got my true passion to begin with.

Spike
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Current Build: 2 years into a beautiful little girl

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captain_john
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Post by captain_john »

bruceh wrote:I think if they would just keep the cover photo to experimental sport planes most of the controversy would cease.
Bruce, You are SPOT ON!!! In fact, put an RV on each cover and you will likely not hear another word!


I am an EAA member and I like going to OSH. Maybe it isn't because of the magazine and perhaps not for what they may do or not do for GA. I go because it is what I stand for and what I do!

Brian, if I had a grandson I would do the exact same thing as you! It gives me a lump in my throat to see those pictures and I am so glad that you are doing your part to promote flying and I am so glad that Austin has an interest!

Chad, fight the good fight! You are on the winning team!

See you all at OSH!!! More PRIME RIB!!!

:) CJ
RV-7
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It's all over but the flying! 800+ hours in only 3 years!

joe plihal
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Post by joe plihal »

With all respect in the world and please correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression the back in 1950 something when the EAA was formed the membership was open to AVIATION ENTHUSIASTS. I belong to the EAA for many reasons. It is probably the best advocate for GA and homebuilding on the planet. It supports homebuilding through many avenues: SportAir workshops, HomeBuilders Hints etc etc. The FAA likes to use the words "Education and Entertainment", the EAA provides a lot of education opportunities. I finished my RV 9 last fall, I took advantage of many of these opportunities during the construction and I truly appreciated having them available to me.
Some issues of the magazine are more interesting to me than others, I can live with that.
Chad Jensen, a homebuilder, is a good person to have at EAA headquarters. Brady Lane has been very visible with his videos of his pilot training and now with his Dream,Build,Fly internet series. All of that is good stuff for the homebuilding community.
The EAA is not perfect, but it is far from bad and it is far and away the best game in town.

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cjensen
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Post by cjensen »

joe plihal wrote:With all respect in the world and please correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression the back in 1950 something when the EAA was formed the membership was open to AVIATION ENTHUSIASTS.
You are absolutely correct Joe! That's EXACTLY what I wrote about in the April issue... 8)
Chad Jensen
Missing my RV-7...
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http://verticalpower.com

pat
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Post by pat »

Chad, I know its your job to keep up on all this but putting in excessive hours probably is not required. When I see how many members or visits hit these sites compared to the dozen people complaining over and over, couple that with bitch'n begets bitch'n. My observation is the problem (if there actually is one) is much smaller than it appears.

Spike, your second paragraph of your last post cleared up my personal conflict with "what am I missing". I conclude that im not missing anything. I get out of EAA membership exactly what I expect. As far as Sport Aviation mag goes. I enjoy it everymonth but there again, I dont expect it to be a technical manual or professional journal there are better resources for that.

this exercise has been much cheaper than a shrink :mrgreen:

pat

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BSwayze
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Post by BSwayze »

hydroguy2 wrote:Youth is the key to the future. Get kids involved and they will find passion....at least that's my plan.
Brian,

I loved your story about your grandson! It was great to see it on the front page of VAF that day, too. Well deserved.

My 6-yr old granddaughter is living with us for a while, and her interest and participation is very similar. It's such a wonderful experience to share this with her. She loves my tools, especially the drill and the rivet squeezer. Thanks for posting the pictures and telling the story!
Bruce Swayze
Portland, Oregon
http://www.BrucesRV7A.com
RV-7A Working on Firewall Forward

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captain_john
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Post by captain_john »

BSwayze wrote:
hydroguy2 wrote:Youth is the key to the future. Get kids involved and they will find passion....at least that's my plan.
Brian,

I loved your story about your grandson! It was great to see it on the front page of VAF that day, too. Well deserved.

My 6-yr old granddaughter is living with us for a while, and her interest and participation is very similar. It's such a wonderful experience to share this with her. She loves my tools, especially the drill and the rivet squeezer. Thanks for posting the pictures and telling the story!
SECOND THAT!!!

Brian, GREAT story!!! We have a young aviator amongst us!!!

:) CJ
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Garmin G3X with VP-X & a TMX-IO-360 with G3i
It's all over but the flying! 800+ hours in only 3 years!

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