Ordering Wings -- What Options Should I Consider?

[aparchment]

I am going to order my wings within the week. I am planning on selecting the capacitive fuel senders as an option. I also plan to install a heated pitot -- perhaps the one from Dynon. Finally I am considering going with some sort of auxiliary fuel tank option, but I am not familiar with vendors or systems that are proven. I have seen one that is a tube that inserts through the ribs and heard about one that replaces the fiberglass wingtip.

Could you guys give me some feedback on these three options that I am interested in, as well as suggestions for anything else that I should consider at this point like strobes, landing lights, etc.

Thanks for the input.

Antony

[Spike]

Actually Antony, out of all those the only one that really makes any difference when ordering is the choice of fuel senders, and even that you can put off for a while.

The long range tanks aren't even something supported or endorsed by Van's. Actually, in the latest RVator they specifically said that they did not see a need or think they were a good idea.

-- John

[captain_john]

I thought that I would want them too when I started building. Now, after doing one tank and working on the second one and given it some serious thought... I think 42 gallons is enough.

CJ

[l & d lewis]

Ya know John I was thinking about the extended tanks, but like Van says how often will you need them. Now I'm thinking about a hard point on the bottom and a drop tank with a transfer pump. The plumbing isn't that complicated,nor is a hard point attachment. Manual emergency release. Leave it home when you don't need it. What do ya think?.........Larry

[Spike]

Hmmm, thats kind of a cool idea. I would make sure you run the dimensions as far as ground clearance and what happens if you lose a gear leg or some combination there of. That could be cool.

[captain_john]

a hard point on the bottom

...would be handy for a couplah things!!!

Now, on a totally different note I was thinking of external pods for carrying deer, rifles and gear.

These hard points could attach a fuel tank and/or a pod.

This all gets complicated by the exhaust stream. The stuff is HOT! I don't wanna cook the deer or set off any cartridges while en route! Let alone bring 100LL up to it's flash point!

Ummmmmm, any thoughts?

CJ

[Guest]

As a relatively new RV flyer, I don't see a need for long range tanks. You can fly these for about 3 hours and cover about 600 miles or so and by then I need a break! - - - for the obvious reasons!! - - - And Larry, I figure I can fly from Bellingham, Washington, land in Ketchikan with plenty of reserve before flying on up the coast to Yakitat then to Ancorage or Fairbanks for my trip to Alaska sometime in the future. Yes, I am aware of how fast the weather changes up there and will keep that in mind when I make the trip.
Dan N742DA

[l & d lewis]

Realistically I don't see the need for extended range tanks if you stick with Lycoming, but I was looking at the Inodyne turbine which uses more fuel. I still like the idea of the hard points. Like CJ said they'd be cool for external loads. Just things to think about before you button the thing up. My current airplane doesn't have the range for the coastal route so I've stuck to the interior route through Canada. Certainly the -8 will have the range and speed..........Larry

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No offense guys, but I think it may be shortsighted to not consider the need for additional fuel if you are building an IFR / traveling airplane like I am. If I am trying to get from my home in Maine to Leesburg airport in Virginia and IFR conditions exist over my route, I don't want to make a fuel stop if I don't have to. In addition, I want adequate fuel on hand to arrive at my destination and have the ability to shoot a couple of approaches and hold for a bit as well as travel to my alternate if needed.

Unless it causes a CG problem by adding tanks/fuel, I don't see why you wouldn't choose to add more fuel to a plane that is being occupied by a single person and flown IFR.

Oh, and as far as time in the cockpit. I have happily spent 8 hours (with brief fuel stops) in the cockpit on several cross country trips. It's amazing how much less tiring flying is than driving.

Antony

[captain_john]

Well, ummmmm... lemme start off by saying that when I envisioned this project, I had full intentions of installing some means of carrying more fuel.

When I began my wings, I contemplated the additional design and construction considerations and dismissed it as being "too much".

But, if I were to do a mod like this I would give due diligence to our very own 4Kilo's design.

The "Tuckey Tank" is a great idea. My problem is that I aren't a en-gi-near! There is no way that my simple mind could weigh all the complications and variables in a design like that. This is why I am a kit builder and not a scratch builder. I know my limitations.

Antony, have you seen 4Kilo's tank plans before? If he doesn't respond (which he just may) send him a PM and tell him I sent ya!

CJ

[jim_geo]

I met up with a builder in the local coffee shop last week. He had his lap top with him and he showed me pics of his RV4 center fuel tank. Basically just a 15 gallon box behind the back seat. He is nearing compleation af an 8 and it looks like it's going to be a nice one.

[captain_john]

Did you read what Bill Randolph installed into his -8 for his 'round-the-world trip!?!

Absolutely over the top!

That whole trip just blows my mind! Maybe when I am 80 I can do that too!

CJ

[4kilo]

Antony,

I am in full agreement with you. Just because you have bigger fuel tanks does not mean you have to fill them up. But when you need the extra gas, it sure is nice to have someplace to put it (a can in your lap just doesn't cut it!).

I looked at a whole bunch of ways of adding extra fuel to my RV before I settled on the method I am using. The extra tanks offered by Flymore and SafeAir1 are both good systems, but these are expensive for the addional fuel they add. Both of these systems may be added to an RV with completed wings, so for quick builders these are the only good options I am aware of.

I did not want to add fuel to the fusilage for safety and CG considerations, so that leaves the wings. I have seen several projects where builders have increased the size of the standard tanks by adding extra bays (one RV-9 builder is making the entire leading edge of each wing a fuel tank). Although structurally sound, this method leaves something to be desired in the case of an airplane which will be used for aerobatics. Specifically, in any kind of quick rolling or spinning type manuever, the fuel will tend to migrate to the wingtips, drastically increasing the aircraft's moment of inertia about the roll and yaw axes. This will definately have detrimental consequenses to handling, and could even make the aircraft unrecoverable from a spin (deliberate or inadvertant). Since I intend to do at least moderate aerobatics in my plane, this option was ruled out.

The system I came up with basically uses fuel from the outboard aux tanks first, only using fuel from the main tanks once the aux tanks are empty. When the aux tanks are empty, the design does not let fuel move from the main tank to the aux tank, thus keeping the yaw and roll momentum the same as a stock airplane. The SafeAir1 and Flymore tanks also have this feature, which I would consider extremely important to maintain handling charictaristics for any airplane in which aerobatics are contemplated.

Since I am working out design details as I continue with my build, my tank design is still a work in progress. Unfortunately, until I actually have a chance to test fly the airplane, there is no way to know for sure that everything will work out as intended. Seems like the FAA calls these "Experimental" for a reason!

Pat

P.S. CJ, I couldn't dissapoint you by not responding after that plug!

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Pat:

Thanks for the info. A friend who is rebuilding a 4 is installing the SafeAir tanks, so I am going to go over and see how they fit, etc.

I will probably only put fuel in them for cross country trips and leave them empty for VFR schlepping around.

Antony