Belted Air Power...CHEVY!

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:06 pm

No posts in this forum since March!! Since this is "my" forum *snicker*, I thought I'd shake things up a bit again...

So, why am I posting this thread about the Chevy 4.3L V6 solution from BAP? Well, I've been emailing Jess for over two years with questions about this coversion, and it's become AWFULLY appealing in the realm of $6+ Avgas and $4+ Mogas, and steady, if not climbing, prices of traditional engines and parts.

I spoke on the phone tonight with Jess after he asked if he could call me thru an email earlier today. I thought that was pretty cool...a vendor asking if I could be contacted! I got the feeling that Jess is one of the most genuine airplane guys out there that is offering an alternative product.

With over 1000 hours on his Buick 215 V8 Swift, and now over 500 hours on his Chevy V6 RV-6 without a single issue, it's pretty attractive. He did have one failure on his very first PSRU over the desert due to misalignment, but since then NOTHING.

It's such a simple coversion as far as auto's go with a carburater, points, distributor, and a mixture manifold block. I've talked with Ross about all this already, and he can do fuel and spark on this engine, and his stuff is SOLID.

This engine develops about 190hp at 3800rpm, and only 3500 is used for cruise power, burning 8.5gph at 180mph. Not bad...

Oh, the price? Less than $15k firewall to the prop.

FLAME SUIT ON!!!!

weezbad · Post by **weezbad** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:55 am

if i were going to do somethoing alternative this would likely be it. i have seen 4.3 liter engines go 400,000 miles and @ 1.5 gross weight.
that said i have seen three in the past year turn the #1 rod bearing at around 125,000 miles. IIRC you can get the # 1 piston out from the bottom without removing the crank. the 4.3 has larger bearing journals than does the 5.7 and 5.0 s/b therefore the rods are not interchangeable. (this info is simply gee whiz) for the few that do not know the 4.3 is almost like a 5.7 with two cylinders removed. if you could go with an all aluminum 5.7 that would be my ticket.

i have abused these engines for years up to 6500 rpms (stock crank and rods) and never had a failure.

markb · Post by **markb** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:09 am

There is a Mustang II that has been flying for several years with a Belted Air Power V-6 Chevy conversion. By all accounts, this installation works very well.

BUT: The builder of this particular aircraft has a medical issue and has been trying to sell his plane for over two years. The current asking price is a good $20,000 less than the going price for an equivalent Lycoming-powered aircraft. The plane is good-looking and the workmanship is above reproach, yet he is unable to sell it. Clearly the auto engine is at least part of the problem.

You can check out this aircraft on Barnstormers.

http://barnstormers.com/cat.php?PHPSESS ... 370b1a8541

One last comment: I know of one V-8 Buick-powered M-II that was lost when its PSRU failed, resulting in an off-field landing. (I do not believe this was a BAP unit.) When I spoke to the owner, he was building a second M-II. Engine: Lycoming O-360.

markb · Post by **markb** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:34 am

Sorry, bad URL. Try this one:

http://www.barnstormers.com/listing.php?id=239740

Brantel · Post by **Brantel** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:40 am

weezbad wrote: i have abused these engines for years up to 6500 rpms (stock crank and rods) and never had a failure.

The engine reliability would not be my concern. It would be the PSRU unit.

Do these things have dual ignition and plugs?

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:23 am

Brantel wrote:The engine reliability would not be my concern. It would be the PSRU unit.

Do these things have dual ignition and plugs?

The PSRU unit is always going to be the weakest link in any alternative installation. To my knowledge, other than Jess' first unit failure, there have been no other failures since. The belt is changed every two years or 500 hours, whichever is first. Cost is about $200.

Jess uses a dual point, dual distributor ignition system, siwtchable from the cockpit, but as with all conversions (other than rotary's) there is no provision for dual plugs. I would more than likely work with Ross on an electronic system if I did this.

markb,
I know of the Mustang II in St. Louis. Didn't know Gale had a medical issue...bummer. I have no doubt that the airplane is priced much lower because of the engine installation. BUT, he has nearly $20,000 LESS in that airplane than he would have with a Lycoming...

I do like this conversion...I haven't put money on anything yet, so it's an idea that I like at this point.

flytoboat · Post by **flytoboat** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:28 am

Chad,
Do you know the weight difference between the V6 and lyc?
Are they having any cooling issues with it?
(You can tell it's summertime by the amount of cooling/radiator threads on the Egg forums

)

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:44 am

flytoboat wrote:Chad,
Do you know the weight difference between the V6 and lyc?
Are they having any cooling issues with it?
(You can tell it's summertime by the amount of cooling/radiator threads on the Egg forums )

I have come across a few estimates, but no one will admit anything accurately. One V6 was reported at 413lbs for everything, but Jess said that didn't include the radiator at about 8lbs, and two gallons of coolant at 8lbs/gal. So, at least another 25lbs to that.

Dry weights are vitually the same, but the Chevy is heavier at 292 vs. about ~285 for a 360 Lyc.

It's heavier, no doubt.

No cooling issues have been reported. BAP has a pretty good design it seems as the cooling system was designed by a retired Lockheed Skunk Works engineer. None reported doesn't mean anything though.

RV7Factory · Post by **RV7Factory** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:49 pm

Chad,

What you REALLY need is a Dodge engine. That way, I can fly up next to you and yell... "That thing got a Hemi?"

Sorry for the diversion, you may now return to your regularly scheduled program.

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:51 pm

I had a Dodge! Burned too much gas!!

weezbad · Post by **weezbad** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:11 pm

RV7Factory wrote:Chad,

What you REALLY need is a Dodge engine. That way, I can fly up next to you and yell... "That thing got a Hemi?"

what

you know good and well if a dodge engine got off the ground it would cut off almost immediately..... goats eat grass.
geez man i thought you guys were at least a little smart

Sorry for the diversion, you may now return to your regularly scheduled program.

rob · Post by **rob** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:45 pm

You and I already talked about it a bit, but I'll reitterate that I think it is an idea definitely worth considering. Like I said, I am 99.9% certain that I would never tear into my Lycoming for an overhaul, and I am an experienced aircooled VW guy. I would have zero qualms about doing a rebuild on a chevy engine, though. Maybe it is just because I am not yet comfortable with the little nuances of a Lycoming, but I think of a chevy as something comfortable to dive into, if needed. I think your logic and reasoning is sound, Chad -- not to mention how freakin' jealous I'll be on your fuel burn

I can't remember if you put numbers up in your first post or not, but I do seem to recall that the burn is less than an IO-360...could be wrong on that, though.

Bob Barrett · Post by **Bob Barrett** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:17 pm

My friend Rob Jahnke phone 320/240-1290 has a 1982 Mustang II with an IO 320-160 HP engine. It is currently hangared at Little Falls, MN (LXL).

It is on Barnstormers also.

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:41 pm

Bob Barrett wrote:My friend Rob Jahnke phone 320/240-1290 has a 1982 Mustang II with an IO 320-160 HP engine. It is currently hangared at Little Falls, MN (LXL).

It is on Barnstormers also.

No offense Bob, but what's this got to do with the Chevy? Am I missing something???

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:45 pm

rob wrote:You and I already talked about it a bit, but I'll reitterate that I think it is an idea definitely worth considering. Like I said, I am 99.9% certain that I would never tear into my Lycoming for an overhaul, and I am an experienced aircooled VW guy. I would have zero qualms about doing a rebuild on a chevy engine, though. Maybe it is just because I am not yet comfortable with the little nuances of a Lycoming, but I think of a chevy as something comfortable to dive into, if needed. I think your logic and reasoning is sound, Chad -- not to mention how freakin' jealous I'll be on your fuel burn

I can't remember if you put numbers up in your first post or not, but I do seem to recall that the burn is less than an IO-360...could be wrong on that, though.

Supposedly it's in the neighborhood of 8-8.5gph...who knows for sure...

I'm not super serious about this, but it definitely is intriguing...BTW...you'll love to hear this Rob, 100LL went to freakin' $6.40 a gallon at Image today.

We should get your tanks filled before it hits $10!!!!

Bob Barrett · Post by **Bob Barrett** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:42 pm

Chad, You are right my comment missed my point because he is selling his Mustang for $35,000, which is actually less than the belted power Mustang. I meant to say that orginally but goofed up. I would much prefer a direct drive aircraft engine on any airplane and to me belted power is not a good idea. I would guess that an IO-320-160 HP engine would use less fuel than a belted V-8. I fully expect my carberated 0-320 160 will burn seven gallons an hour or less. That is what it burned when it was in a 172 I used to rent. Spike needs to put a brain check on this software for guys like me. Spell check is obviously needed for me also.

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:54 pm

No problem at all Bob! I just thought I missed something...

I think the O-320 that I plan for my airplane will burn in the neighborhood of 7-8gph as well, as that's what it burned in my Cherokee 140 (actually it was 6.5 or less, but it was 150hp).

Yes, I am still planning an O-320 (maybe a 360) despite my starting this thread. I just wanted a discussion...

RV7Guy · Post by **RV7Guy** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:10 pm

Hi Chad,

Do we need talk about an intervention again? Remember the men in white coats are ready if you stray.

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:20 pm

Hey D! Good to see you were authorized to post!

No...this thread was a discussion generator. It was a bit slow around here for a while, and I wanted to try and boost some activity.

I do like this conversion, but I am staying the course for an O-320. Though I have been thinking lately about trying to figure out a way to fit an IO-320 with the cowl I have. Van's says I can't do it...

SJ long cowl with the carb scoop.

RV7Guy · Post by **RV7Guy** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:43 pm

Bob at Bob's fairings can modify the Van's cowl for the round inlets for you. Looks like the SJ when done but with proper dimensions for your engine.

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Belted Air Power...CHEVY!

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