Attaching Leading Edge to Spar??

[tshort]

I second the solid rivets.
I bucked them all solo ... there are something like 60 total (30 each wing - I bet Chad has a better count than me! ) and I only have one that is even questionable (see other thread) - no other smilies or anything, and the shop heads are great.
It is definitely doable with some care. But no beer. At least not until after...

Thomas

[captain_john]

You did them all solo!?!

Thomas, you are da MAN!!!

BOOBY!

CJ

[Wicked Stick]

Thomas,

you must be like that guy from the "Fantastic Four" movie, who can extend his arms around corners...

Hats off to ya for the solo bucking feat.

[bmurrish]

Congrats Thomas

[tshort]

I lost a little skin and had some marks on my forearms but it really wasn't that bad.
I do think bucking is faster solo assuming you can safely / comfortably hold both the bar and the gun. There is no time wasted talking back and forth, and you know if you've set the rivet well or not. It is easy to get a good rhythm going and set lots of rivets quickly. Plus, if you screw up nobody else feels bad about dinging your airplane!

T.

p.s. Bill - you did all yours solo, too, didn't you? I think that is why I attempted it - you had already done it successfully ... ?

[RV7Factory]

I bucked them all solo

Said in my best Wayne's World voice... We're Not Worthy!

[RV7Factory]

Hey Lorin,

If you need help shooting/bucking these, send me a PM. Maybe we can work something out.

[bmurrish]

Yes Thomas, you are correct. I am currently working on the interior of the fuselage and have been able to rivet everything solo with the exception of the bottom wing skins, the forward fuselage floors and the lower forward gear weldments. I could have done the wings skins solo, but AndyG was around and wanted to help. Couldn't pass up that offer.

[TomNativeNewYorker]

There is no time wasted talking back and forth, and you know if you've set the rivet well or not.

I was taught by and old timer early on in my sheetmetal career a little tip when two people are needed for shooting rivets together.

1. Place rivet in hole, and put set on rivet lightly.

2. Wait till you feel the bucking bar on the rivet push against the set, then push down on rivet firmly with set.

3. shoot rivet once, and keep the set on the rivet and wait for the person bucking to tap on the bucktail.

a) one firm tap means he needs you to shoot the rivet some more.

b) two quick taps means the bucktail is good and move on to the next rivet.

c) three taps means the rivet is bad for whatever reason, mark the rivet for removal and move on to the next one. Drill any bad rivets out later all at one time.

Two people can shoot at a very efficient speed if they are in synch with each other. I had a co-worker who was a lefty couldnt shoot a rivet very well at all, but was great to have for bucking rivets. I had a modification to F-14 engine cowlings I did on a regular basis that had about three hundred 5/32" rivets. We were so in synch we could shoot them in about 15-20 minutes without and defective rivets. The first couple rivets we used the tap signal until the timing of the gun was learned, then it was all out shooting, almost sounded like a machine gun.

[Snap]

You know what I would like to see?

Lets get together and buy a Kit and get everone there. Lets see how long or to be more correct, quickly we can biuld it. I wonder what has been the quickest?

[prestwich]

That sounds good. Everyone come on over to my place and we'll see how quickly we can build my plane. Purely as an educational experience, of course!

There was a guy who made a documentary of himself building a plane. Wish I could remember more details, but this is what I recall: He had built a couple of planes and they had taken him several years, but he figured most of that was down time. So he hypothesized that he could design, build, and fly a plane, starting from nothing, in thirty days, if he really focused on it.

The whole thing was filmed. The guy got more and more irritated as time went on and he kept slipping further behind schedule. He lost his temper with the camera crew a couple of times. At the end of the thirty days, he had a mentor come over to evaluate his work. The evaluator said he estimated that about 5% (or something like that) was done, and that the quality of workmanship was terrible. So the guy smashed it up and hauled it off to the dump.

Not wanting to be defeated, he called some kit manufacturer and went to their plant. About six guys jumped on a kit together, and they did get it built in thirty days.

[RV7Factory]

There was a guy who made a documentary of himself building a plane. Wish I could remember more details, but this is what I recall: He had built a couple of planes and they had taken him several years, but he figured most of that was down time. So he hypothesized that he could design, build, and fly a plane, starting from nothing, in thirty days, if he really focused on it.

It was a PBS series called Plane Crazy by Robert Cringley, and it was absolutely hilarious!!! You can find the videos used on Amazon or maybe eBay.

You can read some of his commentary about the series here.

[cjensen]

I know of a -7A that was built by a high school class to flying status in 60 days in Georgia. ...and I've flown it!!

[JohnR]

60 days! Wow! That is fast. Was it a quickbuild or do you know? How did the workmanship look to you? Just curious.

[cjensen]

Honestly, I can't remember if it was a quickbuild or not... Workmanship was OK. No where near a show plane, but it was good.

[aparchment]

Whoa, whoa -- aren't pops weaker than solids? Seems like you might want the attach point of your leading edge ribs to be as strong as possible.

Antony

[RV7Factory]

Sure, but Van's has approved the use of blind rivets here to many people on many occasions. It must be OK if they say so, right?

[cjensen]

Whoa, whoa -- aren't pops weaker than solids? Seems like you might want the attach point of your leading edge ribs to be as strong as possible.

Antony

Remember that the RV is a stressed skin design. The skins are the major structural component (other than the spar, of course) and it is attached to the spar with hundreds of solid rivets on top and bottom. The ribs are structural as well, but they form the airfoil shape, and keep things in place. the LE ribs are attached to the spar to prevent them from buckling. Blind rivets work fine for this.

Van's engineers have repeatedly told builders that this is a fine alternative to trying to attach those with solid rivets.

Too many builders try to second guess the design. It's a kit plane. It's overengineered and built for a reason...

[Wicked Stick]

Yes, but not just any pop rivet... They want you to use structural pop rivets..."Cherry Max" would be my choice if I didn't use the solid rivets

[RV7Factory]

Yes, but not just any pop rivet... They want you to use structural pop rivets..."Cherry Max" would be my choice if I didn't use the solid rivets

I've seen documented quotes from Tech Support at Van's approving the use of LP4-x's or MSP-4x's. My understaning is that these are not structural rivets. I am confused, anyone care to comment?