How is this legal?

tshort · Post by **tshort** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:41 pm

Saw this elsewhere:
www.schumacheraero.com

I enjoyed this guys show on the Disco Wings Channel (back when we had it ...

) but this kind of thing really disappoints me. He is advertising a custom built -10, and his web site advertises custom built experimentals. How is this permissible under the law? I know it happens a lot, but blatantly advertising it like this?
I am just afraid that stuff like this is gonna ruin it for those of us who love and pursue this hobby for the right reasons. My impression of this guy from the TV show was that he was a long time EAA member and experimental enthusiast. I can see wanting to earn a living doing what you love but technically that isn't allowed ... ???

Thomas

Womack2005 · Post by **Womack2005** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:59 pm

Whats up with this?!?!?!?!

The site says they are located in Northern Wisconsin but I can't see exactly where. Maybe I can get more info if I knew where he was.

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:05 pm

I totally understand where you are coming from, but if he is building them (51%), he is getting the signoff and cert's, then he decides to sell them...sounds like anybody else. He just does it a lot.

I do think that if he is advertising that he will custom build an airplane for YOU to YOUR specs, and YOU pay for all of it along the way, that should not be allowed. I didn't see anything on his website about custom building an airplane for another person. Looks like he builds them, then sells them. Maybe I missed something. However, how could people like our government officials, say...a senator from Oklahoma, get the time to build one? Easy, have someone build it for you! Not legal, I know...

RV7Factory · Post by **RV7Factory** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:00 pm

And I quote...

"Schumacher Aero offers a complete homebuilt aircraft service in their newly completed workshop in northern Wisconsin. The shop is complete with full painting facilities in order to make it a turn-key operation."

It doesn't specifically state that he will build an airplane for YOU, but IMHO it sure is implied.

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:05 pm

I did read that , and got the impression that it is implied, I agree. He doesn't come right out and say it though. Hey, I'm not defending the guy, but if he's been doing it since 1981, and built two RV-6A's for EAA Young Eagle's, it must be legit.

tshort · Post by **tshort** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:09 pm

Well, on the post on the "other site" it says the -10 can be customized however the buyer wants with avionics, paint, etc.
That sounds like a build to spec service to me...

T.

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:54 pm

Lemme sugar coat this as much as I can.

I am dead set AGAINST hired guns!

It will ruin our hobby and is against the spirit of the category!

Am I clear on this?

Any questions?

CJ

Will, the google phonebook shows 7 of them in WI.

Dan A · Post by **Dan A** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:20 pm

Hey!, I agree with CJ.

It sounds like he will build them for you and that is not ligit!!
Dan

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:44 pm

His motto is: We build today what you fly tomorrow.

I dunno, but that sounds like a hired gun to me.

CJ

svanarts · Post by **svanarts** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:26 pm

I honestly don't know so I'm asking...
I tried to post a picture from his site but nogo. There is a picture of him spraying allodyne from a hudson sprayer on the start to finish page.

How safe is it to breath this stuff? No mask, no gloves. I'm not always all that careful but doesn't look like too good an idea to me.

jim_geo · Post by **jim_geo** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:08 pm

Maybe there's just something wrong with the law. I think if a person wants to do it they should be able to. What happened to good old capitalism?

tshort · Post by **tshort** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:50 pm

jim_geo wrote:Maybe there's just something wrong with the law. I think if a person wants to this they should be able to. What happened to good old capitalism?

I agree, I don't have a problem with the concept, just that under current regs it is not permissible. I don't want the FAA to regress and ruin stuff for everyone else. I would love to build airplanes and sell them when I retire - I just doubt this will ever come about.
My personal opinion is that the FAA is bass ackwards about many things, especially medical certification. Why can someone with hypertension, diabetes, and / or coronary disease drive a large SUV at 80mph in traffic but not fly an airplane?

Thomas

jim_geo · Post by **jim_geo** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:14 am

Sorry to hear about your medical problems Thomas. Anything I can do to help?

TomNativeNewYorker · Post by **TomNativeNewYorker** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:02 am

svanarts wrote:I honestly don't know so I'm asking...
I tried to post a picture from his site but nogo. There is a picture of him spraying allodyne from a hudson sprayer on the start to finish page.

tshort · Post by **tshort** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:23 am

jim_geo wrote:Sorry to hear about your medical problems Thomas. Anything I can do to help?

Huh?

Not me - I'm 32 and healthy (knock on wood). I have considered getting my AME (I am an ER doc by trade) to help people with medical stuff.

I just hate to see all these guys that love flying and are excellent pilots losing medicals for health reasons. I think we should be able to self certify 3rd class for personal flight. Most people are reasonable and wouldn't carry non-pilots in the plane if they knew they were at risk of becoming incapacitated. And those that would probably do anyway (even with the medical process now).

Thanks for the offer, though!!

Thomas

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:54 am

jim_geo wrote:Maybe there's just something wrong with the law. I think if a person wants to do it they should be able to. What happened to good old capitalism?

I agree with capitalism too Jim. I think I will become an AME too, Thomas. I mean what the Hell... seeing as though laws don't matter anymore according to Jim!

Besides, the whole Airman's Medical process IS a FARCE!

CJ

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:21 am

Why doesn't someone call the place, and find out what the deal is? Question the legality of it? Actually, I have a few minutes right now...I'll call and report back in a few...

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:32 am

Ok, couldn't find a phone number anywhere on the site, so I sent them this email-

Good morning. I am an RV builder and there is a discussion going on on one of the forums right now about the legalities of how you build to order (custom). What about the 51% rule? How do you get by the regulations that require that? From my understanding, one cannot be paid to build an experimental class airplane.

Basically, how does all this work, and still be legal?

Thanks.

Chad Jensen

We'll see what they come back with...

jim_geo · Post by **jim_geo** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 12:03 pm

jim_geo wrote:Maybe there's just something wrong with the law. I think if a person wants to do it they should be able to. What happened to good old capitalism?

I knew that would get a rise out of.... someone.

captain_john wrote:I agree with capitalism too Jim. I think I will become an AME too, Thomas. I mean what the Hell... seeing as though laws don't matter anymore according to Jim!

prestwich · Post by **prestwich** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:51 pm

Regardless of anyone's personal opinion about "the way it oughta be," the law says what it says. I'm not so sure that it's as ambiguous as we think it is. I think there's confusion about it because, well, maybe we haven't read the FARs so very thoroughly.

Here's an interesting article:

http://www.zenithair.com/kit-data/ra/rules.html

And here's an excerpt:

----------------

If you decide to allow someone else to build your airplane to be certificated as amateur-built, you will be required to license it under the experimental category for the purpose of exhibition. This category is much more restrictive than amateur-built. The purpose of this category is to allow the holder to exhibit their airplane at air shows, motion pictures, television filming, etc., and of course to fly to and from these productions. I will not spend time discussing this category since it is rarely used.

---------------

There's always going to be scofflaws who do whatever's necessary to skirt the regs, and it's unfortunate that pilots are no more angelic than the population at large. It will be interesting to see what the fellow in my home state says about his little operation.