Vote for your favorite (-7/-9) panel here!

[captain_john]

They are a fraction of the cost, and makes them very attractive. But they are inexpensive because they do not go thru the rigorous testing that the certy'd units go thru.

Egggzactly!

Sooooo, what makes one's testing BETTER than another? Many of these companies are very happy making a product of high (or better) quality that a cert'ed unit and are just simply not willing to go to the expense, hassle and insurance requirements present for certifying their equipment.

Soooo, if I rig my plane up for hard IFR down to minimums and only fly it through layers with 1,000' ceilings at the lowest, is that safe?

A very relative question, no?

...and I am merely playing Devil's advocate here. You weren't that rough on Antony. I just wanted to liven things up a bit. No flames intended.

BTW, this isn't to be construed that I plan on doing regular, hard IFR with my plane. Heck, I may never even bust a layer! (not!)

CJ

[cjensen]

It doesn't make one's product better than the other. The experimental ones just are not proven, and that is FINE with me for flying VFR. Look how many times Blue Mountain has released a new EFIS already. They're on Gen 4, and it still isn't performing right.

I kinda think we are thinking the same thing here, just presenting it differently.

Flying thru layers is one thing. Minimums approaches are another. I don't think either one is unsafe if PILOT skills are prime, but I can't bring myself to trust an experimental anything to shoot a low approach, not just EFIS. Engine, airplane, EFIS, autopilot, prop...it's just me. I fly plenty of IFR at work, so this is just me, myself, and I. If you want to do it, go for it! I'll fly VFR when the weather is good, and have a blast doin' it! IFR flying is VERY satisfying, but I don't consider it fun. And I'm fine with waiting it out, or taking something else if I HAVE to get there. As much as they suck, that's what airlines are for...

[captain_john]

It doesn't make one's product better than the other. The experimental ones just are not proven...

Proven... to WHOM?

The insurance companies? Like their interest is in MY SAFETY?

Pishawwww...

If I deem it not worthy, it isn't! That is where we agree. Blue Mountain isn't worthy! Well, maybe as a boat anchor, but it is too light and would probaly drag the bottom!

I think we are on the same page, but one thing that makes us different is that just because it is certified it DOES NOT make it better! Just because you spent more money on it DOES NOT make it better!

Kinda like when you apply for a job... certification and QUALIFICATIONS are what they look at. You may be certified to operate a certain hunk of machinery but unless you have experience and knowledge, you may not be QUALIFIED!

Knowwhattamean?

CJ

[cjensen]

Proven... to WHOM?

The insurance companies? Like their interest is in MY SAFETY?

Pishawwww...

Insurance? Who said anything about insurance? I'm speaking of the differences between certified units being proven to the FAA for certification purposes, and the experimental units are there for US to test and prove.

I think we are on the same page, but one thing that makes us different is that just because it is certified it DOES NOT make it better! Just because you spent more money on it DOES NOT make it better!

We are on the same page altogether here. I never once said that because it's certified or costs more money makes it better. I did say that if it's proven (certified, FAA), I tend to trust it more, when flying IFR. A Dynon unit is every bit as quality a product as anything Garmin or Chelton has thrown out there for certification, but I don't trust the Dynon (or any other experimental EFIS) for IFR use.

[captain_john]

Therin lies the rub.

I "TEND" to use my own judgement rather than that of others... ESPECIALLY when it is the Federal Government!

Hahahaha



Too funny! Basically, just because the Feds (or anyone else) says that they "approve" it, doesn't make me want to go blindly into the deal.

The same goes for if they HAVEN'T YET approved it or maybe never will even see it!

Just because they don't offer it up for certification doesn't mean it likely wouldn't pass.

CJ

[svanarts]

Everything is all good until the insurance man won't pay. Everything is dandy until you get written up by the FAA for something stupid. Then all judgement is out the window because it will be a judge that's doing the judging. I'm not a professional pilot but I have plenty of friends who are and they are paranoid about the regs for a reason.

I will always feel comfortable with the likes of a Dynon and a Trio EZPilot in my panel to get me out of inadvertent VFR-into-IFR. If I were flying hard IFR on a consistent basis (and I'm not and never will) I would go for only IFR certified stuff. Not because they have been tested, but because the meet FAA req's, and that gives me a legal leg to stand on.

It's kind of a risk game. If you're comfortable with the risk (and I am) then go for it. If not, go the extra mile and get certified stuff.

Just my humble opinion, your opinions may vary.

[captain_john]

Scott, tell me what is actually a certified experimental EFIS system?

Certainly a Chelton or Avidyne would work but in the experimental world (if we are talking LAWS) is it necessarily a requirement?

Now being experimental, if we meet the MEL with what we have (regardless of "certificates") wouldn't it be up to us to "certify" it?

Kinda like we "certify" for night flight.

Thermos, you know this stuff. Can you shed some light on this?

CJ

[svanarts]

Scott, tell me what is actually a certified experimental EFIS system?

Is that a trick question? Sounds like "military intelligence" or "government help" or even "courteous Boston motorist".

That's my whole point, if I were set to fly hard IFR consistently, there would be no "experimental" EFIS in my panel except as a reference. I'd have all certified IFR equipment. Whether that's an EFIS or whether it's steam gauges and all the assorted radios and gizmos you need for full-blown IFR. But like I said, to me it's a risk game. Chances are, nothing bad will ever happen. But something bad is possible. It's up to each builder to assess his own risk exposure.

I'm going with a Dynon FlightDEK-180 by the way, and I cannot believe MY panel didn't eve get one vote!

[captain_john]

HA! Not ONE Vote huh?



...and about we Boston Drivers, It would seem that the news out today from the API is that we are the SAFEST region to drive in! I found it in our regional news and across the county in the San Diego news!

(See the second bullet!)

...and I definately DID NOT SAY hard IFR.

CJ

[jim_geo]

I've been trying to find this picture and just happened across it tonight. When I saw this panel I thought it looked like something I'd be interested in. I particularly liked the layout and the ease at which you can scan across it and have all the info you need at just a glance. To me it just looks like it would be easy to use.