Might have changed my mind, Weathervane II?

JohnR · Post by **JohnR** » Sat May 05, 2007 9:42 pm

Okay, all along I have planned on using a Sam James Cowling and plenum setup with a Barrett Precision Engine IO-360M1B turning a Hartzell blended airfoil prop. Now, due to how busy I've been with real work, I am thinking maybe I should just go with everything from Van's for simplicity sake. I really like the looks of SJ cowl but am worried about adding hours to the build time. Also I have a little concern about the prop extension. Does anyone have any experience with the SJ versus the Van's and the ease of install of one vs the other?

On the engine I am going to call Barrett's next week and see what their current pricing is. With the recent reduction in price on Van's engines and the $1,000 off the engine prop combo it is looking hard to beat. Anyone have any words of wisdom n this area?

One more question. Luke's home from college for the summer and we are planning on hitting the building hard starting next week. I have not ordered my finish kit yet and will be doing so on Monday. Has anyone got their finish kit recently and if so what was the lead time? The website says 8 weeks, I am hoping for less.

P.S. Sorry about the subject line Chad I could not resist.

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Sat May 05, 2007 10:22 pm

No apology necessary! I chuckled when I saw it! There's the poker emoticon again! How do you do those? Sorry, don't answer that...I don't want this thread to creep on the first reply...

Post by **Spike** » Sun May 06, 2007 8:51 am

$1000 off engine & prop combo?

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Sun May 06, 2007 9:06 am

John, Gotcher VM this AM.

A few things here of note.

A) It is hard to build a bad RV
B) Any engine that works is a good one in an RV.
C) Don't create more work for yourself than absolutely necessary.

I have a problem with C, personally. These are custom planes and everyone wants to build in their own tricks. Gotta love that!

Anywhoooo, There is a local guy here with an O-360 in his -7A with the 4" prop thimble and the SJ stuff. All I have to say is, slick but tricky! It is far from easy to do, but looks REALLY NICE!

It comes down to what you really want. If you like it and MUST have it, by all means do it! I am complicating other areas instead, so I have chosen standard Vans cowling.

The engine/prop deal is a good one, but it is a regular engine that costs more than if you were to go through another source. A clone from any vendor will have special tricks and doo dads that the Lyc from Van won't. Plus, when you do the math it is still more costly.

The prop OTOH is a great deal no matter how you slice it! Buying the Blended Airfoil from Van is the WAY TO GO! No one can touch him! I have been told this many times from various prop places. It is due to OEM deal making.

That being said, I won't be looking at Van for my engine. The airscrew... YES!

My $0.02!

CJ

JohnR · Post by **JohnR** » Sun May 06, 2007 1:49 pm

Spike wrote:$1000 off engine & prop combo?

Yep. Here it is straight from the factory website.

This discount is applicable on “bundled” purchases where an Experimental Lycoming engine is
purchased in conjunction with a Hartzell, MT or Sensenich propeller direct through Van’s
Aircraft, Inc. The engine and propeller must be installed on the corresponding airplane as
outlined in our OEM agreements. Please see other applicable restrictions on the engine and
propeller order forms.
This one-time $1000.00 discount is available only to RV builders with a Van’s customer number
and can only be allowed if both the engine and propeller are ordered simultaneously.

JohnR · Post by **JohnR** » Sun May 06, 2007 2:10 pm

captain_john wrote: The engine/prop deal is a good one, but it is a regular engine that costs more than if you were to go through another source. A clone from any vendor will have special tricks and doo dads that the Lyc from Van won't. Plus, when you do the math it is still more costly.

The prop OTOH is a great deal no matter how you slice it! Buying the Blended Airfoil from Van is the WAY TO GO! No one can touch him! I have been told this many times from various prop places. It is due to OEM deal making.

That being said, I won't be looking at Van for my engine. The airscrew... YES!

CJ, Have you looked lately? I can buy an IO-360M1B with the roller rocker technology from vans for $24,400 and then add The blended airfoil prop for $6090, figure in the $1000 discount and it comes to $29,490. Currently Aerosport shows the M1B at $28,800 without the prop and Mttitcuk is showing the price of an IO-360 at $22,200. These prices make the Van's deal seem like it will be very hard to beat. As I mentioned above I plan on calling Barrett's and talking to them again this week as they do not post prices on their website.

Another paragraph I like on the Van's site is:

All of the engines listed below come with roller tappet lifters and camshafts as standard equipment. Lycoming Warranty: Builder has 2 years from date of shipment to activate the warranty. Warranty is activated when the warranty card is mailed in. This should be done when the engine is first run. If Lycoming does not receive the warranty card within 2 years, Lycoming will automatically initiate activation. The warranty covers 100% for the first year after activation and is prorated for an additional year after that.

I would hope I don't need two years before activating the warranty once the engine is here but it would be nice to know you had it if something came up.

It appears to me that the rules have changed in regard to what may be the best deal or best place to buy the engine. Van's has always had the CS prop market cornered in my opinion but now it looks like they may be pretty hard to beat on the engine also. A person could do worse than a factory Lycoming I suppose.

captain_john · Post by **captain_john** » Sun May 06, 2007 6:36 pm

John,

The current price from Mattituck is $24,360. I am not sure what became of their $1,000 discount. It is no longer being advertised on their website. Hmmmmm...

I am willing to bet they would still honor it if asked. That would make the engine less costly that the Van/Lyc and you could still buy the prop from Van for the regualr (ultra cheap, can't be beat) price.

Does that make sense?

CJ

MachineMan · Post by **MachineMan** » Sun May 06, 2007 9:24 pm

I picked up the May issue of Kitplanes today and Mattituck is advertising the $1000.00 Rebate on:
"All Alpha TMX Series Experimental Engines"
"For a Limited Time"

aparchment · Post by **aparchment** » Mon May 07, 2007 9:11 pm

Hey John:

Sam James offers a shorter cowl that will fit without the prop extension. I am considering it since I really like the look of the cowl and inlets. I am trying to find someone who has documented their experience with the cowl well so that I can decide if it is good quality and worth the extra trouble.

Here is one site that I found:

http://www.n523rv.com/cowl/

Antony

JohnR · Post by **JohnR** » Mon May 07, 2007 9:36 pm

Antony,

Today I ordered the finsih kit and decided to use the Van's cowl. I am goign to use the IO360-M1B and with it I think the Van;s is going ot be a lot easy to get right. If I went with the SJ I would need to add a ower scoop for induction even though I was using the M1B. I do plan on building a plenum myself so maybe that will help out a little. I've decided to just "Get'r done."

I'm not sure where I will get my engine yet but it will be the M1B. I like barretts but the dollars may have me going elsewhere. I guess it depends on how the wallet feels when the time comes.

svanarts · Post by **svanarts** » Mon May 07, 2007 11:45 pm

Does anyone know why the prices are dropping? Is it simply competition or is Lyc trying to get rid of a bunch of engines quickly? Or have I simply been listening to "Coast to Coast" too much late at night?

RV7Factory · Post by **RV7Factory** » Tue May 08, 2007 1:52 am

John, I've pretty much decided to go with the M1B, SJ Cowl & Plenum, and Whirlwind Prop. You NEED to do the SJ cowl so I have someone to call!!!

RV7Factory · Post by **RV7Factory** » Tue May 08, 2007 1:57 am

JohnR wrote:If I went with the SJ I would need to add a ower scoop for induction even though I was using the M1B.

Why do you say this John? It's late, and I am tired, but I thought the M1B came with FF induction. Or maybe it was that I was adding a cold air FF sump... I can't remember.

EDIT: I was right, well partly. The M1B is horizontal induction out of the box... so why the scoop John? Somebody please 'splain that to me!

JohnR · Post by **JohnR** » Tue May 08, 2007 7:07 am

The SJ cowl has the small round inlet with no place for the air pickup vs the larger inlets where Van's puts the intake pickup in the left inlet. I hadn;t really thought about it but that is why you need to add another inlet the small ones on the SJ allow for cooling but from what I have read not enough space for the intake.

RV7Factory · Post by **RV7Factory** » Tue May 08, 2007 12:01 pm

Now I got you John... I see what you are saying, you do need to allow for induction air. Rather than the full scoop, a lot of people put a third "ram-air" inlet under the spinner. That's my plan, at least for now. Bottom line is, NO SCOOP FOR ME... period!

Here is an example...

JohnR · Post by **JohnR** » Tue May 08, 2007 12:21 pm

Correct, I should have said ram air instead of scoop. I just decided to go with the Van's as it will be the easiest I think. I don't think it will won't be a slouch when it comes to performance eve nwith the Van's.

I sure do like the looks of the SJ though.

Is that an RV grin I see in your avatar?

RV7Factory · Post by **RV7Factory** » Tue May 08, 2007 2:03 pm

I hear ya John. I sure like the looks of it too, but who know's, I may become WVIII on this one.

I want an acro capable airplane, and I am not sure I want to have prop extension. I'll know more after OSH.

Yup, that's the "daddy build faster so we can go fly the RV" grin.