i will need to shorten the prop if i leave it like this.1:1_Scale wrote:That looks REALLY good Will!
Maybe this is the cure for the nose wheel fork nuts digging in?
build status
-
Spike
- Chief Rivet Banger
- Posts: 4013
- Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:40 pm
- Location: Baltimore, MD
- Contact:
I watched / helped a friend paint his 8A. His results were astounding. Its not for me though. Ill pay someone and settle for the idea that it might be as good as if the builder had done it.
Are you using single stage or base/clear? It looks like the latter.
John
Are you using single stage or base/clear? It looks like the latter.
John
http://www.rivetbangers.com - Now integrating web and mail!
Current Build: 2 years into a beautiful little girl
Current Build: 2 years into a beautiful little girl
guys, thanks,
at this point i really dont see painting your own plane. especially if its all your gonna paint.did i mention i have litteraly spent all summer doing this....
i could have been flying by now and let the painters have it while i spent the fall hunting with my 11 year old son. i built a room i bought lots of tools and supplies and will end up with a mediocre paint job that may leave me wanting. my standards are much higher and now i remember why the last three cars i let pros paint the color. i am one hell of a prep man but i am limited in the actual application of color/clear.
chad,
when finishing small parts i can really do that well. but overall finishing requires a different skill set. the difference is the way the paint dries on an overall job v/s a small job. when you read the data sheets this is why they instruct you to use different temp reducers. its no problem to get flow out on a 3'x3' part but on a 20' part well its a little more challenging to say the least. i dont mean to sound discouraging but i have a feel for your standards as well and think you want a pro job. however your skills seem impressive also and you can likely do this as good or better than me.
i have coverd alot of ground that would help me if i had to do it again but im not gonna do it again to a plane. i have seen alot of crappy paint jobs . it is quite a shame to see what could be a perfectly built machine look like a piece of crap.
spike ..its single stage PPG concept. i was trying to keep it light so i went with vans method.
a little note about the author...i am somewhat negative especially when i am not satisfied with my results.
a year from now who will know the difference. 
"i was good once but i aint as good as i ever was"
at this point i really dont see painting your own plane. especially if its all your gonna paint.did i mention i have litteraly spent all summer doing this....
i could have been flying by now and let the painters have it while i spent the fall hunting with my 11 year old son. i built a room i bought lots of tools and supplies and will end up with a mediocre paint job that may leave me wanting. my standards are much higher and now i remember why the last three cars i let pros paint the color. i am one hell of a prep man but i am limited in the actual application of color/clear.
chad,
when finishing small parts i can really do that well. but overall finishing requires a different skill set. the difference is the way the paint dries on an overall job v/s a small job. when you read the data sheets this is why they instruct you to use different temp reducers. its no problem to get flow out on a 3'x3' part but on a 20' part well its a little more challenging to say the least. i dont mean to sound discouraging but i have a feel for your standards as well and think you want a pro job. however your skills seem impressive also and you can likely do this as good or better than me.
i have coverd alot of ground that would help me if i had to do it again but im not gonna do it again to a plane. i have seen alot of crappy paint jobs . it is quite a shame to see what could be a perfectly built machine look like a piece of crap.
spike ..its single stage PPG concept. i was trying to keep it light so i went with vans method.
a little note about the author...i am somewhat negative especially when i am not satisfied with my results.
a year from now who will know the difference. "i was good once but i aint as good as i ever was"
william....don't let it beat you down, you are stronger than you think.
You can hunt anytime. Painting your own plane is perhaps a once in a lifetime thing and your son gets a chance to learn real world usuable skills. Your plane looks awesome to me. Good job.
I can be as good as I was once but not as good as I once was.
I can be as good as I was once but not as good as I once was.
Last edited by jim_geo on Sat Sep 20, 2008 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
OK Misery, here's your company...
William,
I feel your pain. I'm a couple of week behind you in paint, here's my experience...
As background, in the past I've spent months at a time in a spraybooth spraying furniture and cabinets. I used to do that for a living and put myself through engineering school that way. I also painted a new front fender for my truck and the interior of the plane for practice.
I have great luck with DX1791--it sprays just like a wood finish. Everything else has been a disaster. I'm using DPLF between the Self-Etching primer and the topcoat. After spraying the flaps and ailerons with it, it orange peeled. Sanded, shot it again. Ok this time, but not to my standards. I got it flat enough and shot 2 color coats. The ailerons weren't up to my standards, so I sanded the tops, reshot them horizontally, and then buffed the overspray off of the bottoms.
On to the HS and Elevators...Shot the DX1791. Perfect. Shot the Epoxy. Horrible orange peel. Sanded it all off. Talked to the paint shop, added reducer to the epoxy primer, shot it again. OK this time. Shot 2 color coats. Orange Peel and Fisheyes due to my filtration system being inadequate for these flow rates. Sanded again. New epoxy primer (3rd time now, with all of that sanding...). Color coat is OK, but I'll still make apologies for it for the rest of my life. There's enough orange peel to embarass me, but 3 paint jobs per part is enough.
I shot the VS and Rudder last weekend. They're OK, but still not what I was hoping for. Sprayed misc. metal parts this week. They were horizontal, so they're smooth, but have trash in 'em.
In summary. I will never attempt to paint a plane again. (EDIT 4-6-2009. Yes I would! My plane looks and flies great! Painting was the most difficult part, hence the most rewarding) I've taken a project that I've spent years of my life on, had great pride in, and turned it into something I'll always make excuses and apologies for. My build rate has slowed to a crawl, since I have to work up courage to go out to the booth every time. I've thought about quitting and just taking it to the airport, but my heart's not in it. I can't look at the plane without thinking about paint, painting, etc. Anyway, my experience has been much like yours, and like you I would never attempt this again. My standards are just too high. Now the most visible part of the plane looks like what the general public imagines when they think "homebuilt airplane". It's been my goal all along surpass the quality of anything I could buy, even if I had the money to do so.
At Oshkosh or LOE next year we should park next to each other--I promise my paint job won't make yours look bad. I'll buy the beer.
Regards,
Guy
I feel your pain. I'm a couple of week behind you in paint, here's my experience...
As background, in the past I've spent months at a time in a spraybooth spraying furniture and cabinets. I used to do that for a living and put myself through engineering school that way. I also painted a new front fender for my truck and the interior of the plane for practice.
I have great luck with DX1791--it sprays just like a wood finish. Everything else has been a disaster. I'm using DPLF between the Self-Etching primer and the topcoat. After spraying the flaps and ailerons with it, it orange peeled. Sanded, shot it again. Ok this time, but not to my standards. I got it flat enough and shot 2 color coats. The ailerons weren't up to my standards, so I sanded the tops, reshot them horizontally, and then buffed the overspray off of the bottoms.
On to the HS and Elevators...Shot the DX1791. Perfect. Shot the Epoxy. Horrible orange peel. Sanded it all off. Talked to the paint shop, added reducer to the epoxy primer, shot it again. OK this time. Shot 2 color coats. Orange Peel and Fisheyes due to my filtration system being inadequate for these flow rates. Sanded again. New epoxy primer (3rd time now, with all of that sanding...). Color coat is OK, but I'll still make apologies for it for the rest of my life. There's enough orange peel to embarass me, but 3 paint jobs per part is enough.
I shot the VS and Rudder last weekend. They're OK, but still not what I was hoping for. Sprayed misc. metal parts this week. They were horizontal, so they're smooth, but have trash in 'em.
In summary. I will never attempt to paint a plane again. (EDIT 4-6-2009. Yes I would! My plane looks and flies great! Painting was the most difficult part, hence the most rewarding) I've taken a project that I've spent years of my life on, had great pride in, and turned it into something I'll always make excuses and apologies for. My build rate has slowed to a crawl, since I have to work up courage to go out to the booth every time. I've thought about quitting and just taking it to the airport, but my heart's not in it. I can't look at the plane without thinking about paint, painting, etc. Anyway, my experience has been much like yours, and like you I would never attempt this again. My standards are just too high. Now the most visible part of the plane looks like what the general public imagines when they think "homebuilt airplane". It's been my goal all along surpass the quality of anything I could buy, even if I had the money to do so.
At Oshkosh or LOE next year we should park next to each other--I promise my paint job won't make yours look bad. I'll buy the beer.
Regards,
Guy
Last edited by Speed3Guy on Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
ahhhh were brothers now. osh sounds like a deal. maybe i can swing that. better start planning for it now. 
your thoughts and feelings expressed are exactly like mine.
i dont like to discourage folks and some have great experiences but you are at the mercy of the temperature, humidity and and whatever else is going on that day...i love to paint and have a camaro project on the burner that may turn into a corvette.(possible trade with a neighbor) i will paint again but i'll leave the plane painting up too the guys that do it for a living. cars seem easier and fun to me. the bad thing is in the end i'll be good enough to paint my own plane. but by the time i build another one i'll have to start from scratch.
before any asks how a car is easier, its because no worry about weight and steel loves to be painted. i always prime and wetsand prior to color and it doesnt go 200 mph in the rain.
i appreciate your sharing of your experience. few people want to document the less than perfect stuff. its hard to take a picture of an orange peeled paint job and show it too a world of people more skilled than yourself. especially a bunch of alpha male type pilots.\
oh btw i still have the wings to go.....and i am not sure what method i will try on them. the 1791 i have returned and i dont feel good about the alodine method....i just dont think the adhesion is there. if it peels off i will pay someone else to do it then i'll have a15,000$ paint job.
ps i was born in abq....sandia base to be exact.....
osh sounds like a deal. maybe i can swing that. better start planning for it now. your thoughts and feelings expressed are exactly like mine.
i dont like to discourage folks and some have great experiences but you are at the mercy of the temperature, humidity and and whatever else is going on that day...i love to paint and have a camaro project on the burner that may turn into a corvette.(possible trade with a neighbor) i will paint again but i'll leave the plane painting up too the guys that do it for a living. cars seem easier and fun to me. the bad thing is in the end i'll be good enough to paint my own plane. but by the time i build another one i'll have to start from scratch.
before any asks how a car is easier,
its because no worry about weight and steel loves to be painted. i always prime and wetsand prior to color and it doesnt go 200 mph in the rain.i appreciate your sharing of your experience. few people want to document the less than perfect stuff. its hard to take a picture of an orange peeled paint job and show it too a world of people more skilled than yourself. especially a bunch of alpha male type pilots.
\oh btw i still have the wings to go.....and i am not sure what method i will try on them. the 1791 i have returned and i dont feel good about the alodine method....i just dont think the adhesion is there. if it peels off i will pay someone else to do it then i'll have a15,000$ paint job.
ps i was born in abq....sandia base to be exact.....
william....don't let it beat you down, you are stronger than you think.
right you are my friend, but mama's wanting to go too. and when mama aint happy aint nobody happy.jim_geo wrote:You can hunt anytime. Painting your own plane is perhaps a once in a lifetime thing and your son gets a chance to learn real world usuable skills. Your plane looks awesome to me. Good job.
I'm can be as good as I was once but not as good as I once was.
william....don't let it beat you down, you are stronger than you think.
-
Bob Barrett
- Class C
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:37 pm
- Location: Sartell MN
bob thanks for the support.
today is more of the same. i have been painting the wing.
i changed my method so that now i metal prep, alodine, then rinse and roll... well i first had to build a rotisserie. i do all the arorementioned steps then i rinse and roll and rinse and roll. aint no way there is residuals are getting left behind. not to mention i probally have thecleanest wings in town.
after that i epoxy prime with white dplf and topcoat with two coats of concept. this is still having its share of orangepeel but man i just dont think i can shoot HVLP any better.. i am now contemplating shooting a third coat on the top so i can sand and buff. still undecided on that.
the rotisserie i cobbed together from the wing stand.
a good alternative is lots and lots of lights. i have 4 double row 8 footers and two double row 4 footers and yet i still need mor lights or to better posistion them.
and the painted wing. i wish it was as slick as it looks in the pic..
today is more of the same. i have been painting the wing.
i changed my method so that now i metal prep, alodine, then rinse and roll... well i first had to build a rotisserie. i do all the arorementioned steps then i rinse and roll and rinse and roll. aint no way there is residuals are getting left behind. not to mention i probally have thecleanest wings in town.
after that i epoxy prime with white dplf and topcoat with two coats of concept. this is still having its share of orangepeel but man i just dont think i can shoot HVLP any better.. i am now contemplating shooting a third coat on the top so i can sand and buff. still undecided on that.
the rotisserie i cobbed together from the wing stand.
a good alternative is lots and lots of lights. i have 4 double row 8 footers and two double row 4 footers and yet i still need mor lights or to better posistion them.
and the painted wing. i wish it was as slick as it looks in the pic..
william....don't let it beat you down, you are stronger than you think.
guy,
my SATA spit out an o-ring. it was actually under the fluid tip blocking the airhorn passages somewhat. i knew something was wrong but couldnt find it at the time. i will call SATA today for a spare. in the mean while i'll use my sharpe.
cant be any worse. probally better.
i wetsanded it until it was smooth with 2000 grit paper by hand. not machine
when you sand and dry it off you can tell if you got it all or not. you dont have to get it all to make it look good from 5 feet away but the smoother the bettr. it only takes a little to make a cobbed up paint job look loads better. how much paint you put on will dictate how much you can sand. Carefull on the rivets. one or two passes only. the compound will smooth them, out enough .PPG says you must have three coats to allow for sanding and compounding. poly urethanes are a bit more difficult to buff. only buff mettalics do not sand . thats the reason my colors are solids. i knew i would end up buffing.
always buff off of a edge and never onto it or it will burn the paint off, or bend the part, or snatch the buffer from you and throw it across the shop while damaging the part.
machine buff with microfinishing compound and the white pad.
http://www.levineautoparts.com/3m06062.html
http://www.tcpglobal.com/AutoBodyDepot/ ... MMM%205734
then remove swirl marks with the grey one.
http://www.tcpglobal.com/AutoBodyDepot/ ... MMM%205738
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebse ... 6E666666--
then go over with some kind of hand finishing polish. i use 3m imperial hand glaze but i am not sure if its still availiable.
http://www.levineautoparts.com/3mimhanglazq.html
here is a video on it by 3M . in an effort to minimize material removal on the rivets..i dont use the wool pad and the rough compound. i start at microfinishing compound with the white foam pad. then i go to the swirl removal step and buff with the grey/black pad. then hand glaze.
http://shows.implex.tv/3MTV/Root/AAD/41 ... 2101384875
good luck
my SATA spit out an o-ring. it was actually under the fluid tip blocking the airhorn passages somewhat. i knew something was wrong but couldnt find it at the time. i will call SATA today for a spare. in the mean while i'll use my sharpe.
cant be any worse. probally better.i wetsanded it until it was smooth with 2000 grit paper by hand. not machine
when you sand and dry it off you can tell if you got it all or not. you dont have to get it all to make it look good from 5 feet away but the smoother the bettr. it only takes a little to make a cobbed up paint job look loads better. how much paint you put on will dictate how much you can sand. Carefull on the rivets. one or two passes only. the compound will smooth them, out enough .PPG says you must have three coats to allow for sanding and compounding. poly urethanes are a bit more difficult to buff. only buff mettalics do not sand . thats the reason my colors are solids.
i knew i would end up buffing. always buff off of a edge and never onto it or it will burn the paint off, or bend the part, or snatch the buffer from you and throw it across the shop while damaging the part.
machine buff with microfinishing compound and the white pad.
http://www.levineautoparts.com/3m06062.html
http://www.tcpglobal.com/AutoBodyDepot/ ... MMM%205734
then remove swirl marks with the grey one.
http://www.tcpglobal.com/AutoBodyDepot/ ... MMM%205738
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebse ... 6E666666--
then go over with some kind of hand finishing polish. i use 3m imperial hand glaze but i am not sure if its still availiable.
http://www.levineautoparts.com/3mimhanglazq.html
here is a video on it by 3M . in an effort to minimize material removal on the rivets..i dont use the wool pad and the rough compound. i start at microfinishing compound with the white foam pad. then i go to the swirl removal step and buff with the grey/black pad. then hand glaze.
http://shows.implex.tv/3MTV/Root/AAD/41 ... 2101384875
good luck
william....don't let it beat you down, you are stronger than you think.
You must be quite the perfectionist Weez cause that looks mighty nice to me!
One thing that confuses me is how you used 5k feet of paper on the fuse several times, a single layer I can't see using more than a few hundred square feet to cover the whole thing. What am I missing ?
One thing that confuses me is how you used 5k feet of paper on the fuse several times, a single layer I can't see using more than a few hundred square feet to cover the whole thing. What am I missing ?
Don Sinclair
CYKF
RV-7A (Fuselage)
CYKF
RV-7A (Fuselage)
don,
thanks for the compliment.
i was exagerating grossly. it seemed like 5000 feet.
1 first i painted the plane .
2 then i taped up some parts and shot another part.
3 then i taped it up and shot the blue stripe.
4 i had to tape up for the place grey stripe.
5 then i had to tape up the blue stripe and by the time i was done i had taped the length of the plane on both sides about 4 or 5 times.
i guess its more like 500 feet.
i am not really a perfectionist, although some who know me would say i am. i like to think of it more as a mad scientist. always looking for something in my messy shop, kinda like the doc from back to the future.
I simply want a nice looking airplane. to me a perfectionist is someone who sets goals so high they can never be achievd and therefore is never able to reach their goals and inturn never satisfied. i know i can do better and usally do. i am miffed that i am getting my arse cut on soemthing ive done several times. and it is gonna be waaaay more scruitinized than anything ive ever done before. i want it to look half way professional. all the things ive done have always been recieved well. this isnt, by far, my best. but i have come to accept it. i will polish it as best i can and move on. i am ready to go to the airport.
i have resolved to simply punch people in the face if they talk smack.
i am not really upset, i am just a little too critical....... as my wife likes to tell me.
thanks for the compliment.
i was exagerating grossly. it seemed like 5000 feet.
1 first i painted the plane .
2 then i taped up some parts and shot another part.
3 then i taped it up and shot the blue stripe.
4 i had to tape up for the place grey stripe.
5 then i had to tape up the blue stripe and by the time i was done i had taped the length of the plane on both sides about 4 or 5 times.
i guess its more like 500 feet.
i am not really a perfectionist, although some who know me would say i am. i like to think of it more as a mad scientist. always looking for something in my messy shop, kinda like the doc from back to the future.
I simply want a nice looking airplane. to me a perfectionist is someone who sets goals so high they can never be achievd and therefore is never able to reach their goals and inturn never satisfied. i know i can do better and usally do. i am miffed that i am getting my arse cut on soemthing ive done several times. and it is gonna be waaaay more scruitinized than anything ive ever done before. i want it to look half way professional. all the things ive done have always been recieved well. this isnt, by far, my best. but i have come to accept it. i will polish it as best i can and move on. i am ready to go to the airport.
i have resolved to simply punch people in the face if they talk smack.
i am not really upset, i am just a little too critical....... as my wife likes to tell me.
Last edited by weezbad on Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
william....don't let it beat you down, you are stronger than you think.
Man, we must be cut from the same cloth, I feel the same about what I do. I can so relate to what you say, it's scary
I haven't even started climbing the fence to sit on while deciding if I would try to paint it myself. I know I would like to, but I know if I start down that road I will just keep trying until I get it right, I hate to give up and give a task to someone else that I started. Just my nature.
I haven't even started climbing the fence to sit on while deciding if I would try to paint it myself. I know I would like to, but I know if I start down that road I will just keep trying until I get it right, I hate to give up and give a task to someone else that I started. Just my nature.
Don Sinclair
CYKF
RV-7A (Fuselage)
CYKF
RV-7A (Fuselage)
Ya know, the thing is, i was trying to save weight and in the end i probaly havent saved any.
if i had to do it again (and i wont) this is how i would go about it.
1 wash with scotch brite and water to insure all rivet lines were hit.
2 sand with da @320 grit
3 clean with dx 330 until the rag remained clean
4 prime with self etching primer
5 spay with primer surfacer such as k36
5 sand with 500 grit on the da with an interface pad
6 paint. or maybe seal and paint.
7 if it didnt meet the slickness desired i would buff it out.
i really wanted to eliminate that last step.
if i had to do it again (and i wont) this is how i would go about it.
1 wash with scotch brite and water to insure all rivet lines were hit.
2 sand with da @320 grit
3 clean with dx 330 until the rag remained clean
4 prime with self etching primer
5 spay with primer surfacer such as k36
5 sand with 500 grit on the da with an interface pad
6 paint. or maybe seal and paint.
7 if it didnt meet the slickness desired i would buff it out.
i really wanted to eliminate that last step.
william....don't let it beat you down, you are stronger than you think.
the saga continues, notice the trees in the reflection look globuular.
because i thought it was too rough, it wasnt this rough at 2 coats btw.(a previous post)
i almost let it go but i knew i would kick myself daily if i did. sooooooo i shot another coat on the wing.. and im glad i did. i wet sanded with 2000 and buffed with the 3M compound and then with the swirl mark remover (both machine applied products by 3m.
I mean this with all seriousness, the new 3m stuf is unmatched in quality and ease at which it is applied. dont let the parts house sell you the older stuff by 3m as it doesnt even compare to this.
i used the older stuff on the v/s it looks good in pics but the compound is to coarse and cut the paint off of the rivet heads. the finish was hazy..the new stuff leaves your paint looking wet. it is not a filler method but a polish method. a series of chemical and abrasive polishing.
and note the definition here. came out really nice.
those are not water streaks on the wing that is the reflection of the beads in the metal roof.
this is not prefect mind you, but good enough i wont feel too imbarassed when i get nit picked. may not even have to smack anyone.
one more wing to go
likely wont post any pics of that or the wing tips. im off to the airport.....sooooon.
because i thought it was too rough, it wasnt this rough at 2 coats btw.(a previous post)
i almost let it go but i knew i would kick myself daily if i did. sooooooo i shot another coat on the wing.. and im glad i did. i wet sanded with 2000 and buffed with the 3M compound and then with the swirl mark remover (both machine applied products by 3m.
I mean this with all seriousness, the new 3m stuf is unmatched in quality and ease at which it is applied. dont let the parts house sell you the older stuff by 3m as it doesnt even compare to this.
i used the older stuff on the v/s it looks good in pics but the compound is to coarse and cut the paint off of the rivet heads. the finish was hazy..the new stuff leaves your paint looking wet. it is not a filler method but a polish method. a series of chemical and abrasive polishing.
and note the definition here. came out really nice.
those are not water streaks on the wing that is the reflection of the beads in the metal roof.
this is not prefect mind you, but good enough i wont feel too imbarassed
when i get nit picked. may not even have to smack anyone. one more wing to go
likely wont post any pics of that or the wing tips. im off to the airport.....sooooon. william....don't let it beat you down, you are stronger than you think.
