Fiberglass

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:28 am

i'm getting ready to start my emp tips, and i'm wondering where in the world we get the stuff to seal the tips with. i don't need a lot, as i am just going to seal the open ends. i am not planning on covering any rivets or anything. minimal epoxy work, and minimal sanding.

i think i just need some fiberglass, foam, and epoxy? i have no idea...i'm not looking forward to this.

jim_geo · Post by **jim_geo** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:13 pm

A lot of builders, at least the few I've talked to, save all the tips till the very last (as in finished the airplane) and do all of the fiber glass work at one time. It saves the hassle of breaking a tip in the shop (shop rash). Fiber glass isn't all that bad to work with. Making yourself some small practice projects may be a way to gain some knowledge and make something useful for yourself. I haven't thought about the glassing much but am thinking that I will be plugging the open ends of the tips with Balsa wood and saturating that with resin or perhaps just use foam with a layer of light weight glass over all that. Also, If you cool your jets you get all that extra time to research what needs to be done. It is worth doing the research, resin and glass tends to be a different animal; but still, not that bad.

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:28 pm

that's sorta why i'm asking now...

i probably won't start on the tips until after turkey day, but before xmas. i am planning on ordering the wings around that time as well, and the tips will fill that time while waiting for the wings to arrive. i have a safe storage area for my emp parts in one of the extra rooms in the house (parts are also protected with bubble wrap and wrapped in blankets over that). i want to do them now so that the emp is done. i plan on painting my VS and rudder also, before it all goes together (HS and elevators will be polished).

so...where can i get this stuff??

4kilo · Post by **4kilo** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:58 pm

Chad,

One of the better epoxy/glass product lines is the West system http://www.westsystem.com/. Since these materials are geared towards the boating crowd, the prices are a little lower than some of the aviation specific stuff. Most of the larger boating suppliers will stock the products.

Pat

jim_geo · Post by **jim_geo** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:33 pm

Chad 4Kilo is right. I've been using West System for years. The West system although developed for boats is widely used in aviation and is available through Aircraft Spruce along with all the other supplies you'll need. On the West coast there is also company called Tap that is a supplier of materials and several kinds of resins and glass products. I'm not sure if they are national but they have fairly hard to find items such as extra wide glass cloth. I would look in the phone book for a similar company in your area. You should also be able to find most if not all the materials you need at any well stocked marina.

bmurrish · Post by **bmurrish** » Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:03 pm

Chad,

Definitely go with the West Systems from Spruce. I used balsa wood as a backing when I did mine. I saw a better idea after I had done them. You can go to Home Depot or Lowes and buy this solid blue foam insulation. The cool thing about it is you can remove it after the glass has set.

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:08 am

ok, i've checked on the west systems stuff from spruce--

now, how much do i need for the emp tips?

is the 32oz resin/7 oz hardener kit enough?

what kind of cloth, if any, should i buy?

filler?

sanding blocks or paper?

Dan A · Post by **Dan A** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:55 am

Chad, Get the gallon resin/ quart catalist kit. You will use most all of it by the time you are finished. For filler you can use micro ballons with the resin or most any body filler from auto paint supliers. Probably both. I used both micro ballons and cotton flox along with body filler for my project. The cloth can be both the glass found ot the auto body shops and also the light weight cloth from Aircraft Spruce. Get lots of 60, 80, 150, 220,and 320 grit sand paper and /or blocks.
Good luck !
Dan

Dan A · Post by **Dan A** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:56 am

Oh, and I forgot, you need the pumps to go with the resin kit.

Dan

Post by **Spike** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:57 am

Ill add one more thing Chad, micro balloons can do nasty nasty stuff to your lungs. Be smart when dealing with and sanding it.

-- John

prestwich · Post by **prestwich** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:31 am

I haven't done any fiberglassing, but I've used a lot of West System epoxy for other things -- notably for potting guitar pickups. So this thread is great for me too, even though it'll be a while before I need this info.

I've got one question -- the catalyst comes in three different working life lengths IIRC; which one do you guys use?

And, a suggestion: If you've got a good scale, preferably digital, don't buy the pumps. The pumps have several drawbacks to weighing: they aren't as accurate, and you have to waste some goo to prime them or you'll get a batch of uncured gunk due to air in the system messing up the ratio. Also, you have to mix in "full stroke" quantities, which is a big waste if you just need a "bit more" for the current application. The pumps also end up messy as hell after a while.

Don't forget to mix mix mix. Big disposable paper coffee cups work great. Stir the hell out of the stuff, but blend, don't agitate or you'll get tons of air in it. And mind that ratio! All two part epoxies have some tolerance, but get outside that and the stuff will stay gooey for the better part of eternity. Use it at about 70 degrees F. It's very exothermic on its own, but is hard to mix when cold and kicks off too fast when it's hot.

All of this is based on personal experience and a dumpster full of guitar pickups over the years. YMMV.

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:43 am

great suggestions p-wich!

sorry for all the questions guys, but which is better to use, slow or fast hardener? seems like the slow has the obvious advantage being workable longer...

i need to do more research...micro balloons? flox? slurries? what??? this is like learning a new language!

jim_geo · Post by **jim_geo** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 12:49 am

Chad you might want to check this out. http://www.kane-king.com/rv7aproject/20041222.htm

cjensen · Post by **cjensen** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:02 am

thanks jim, that's a great link. i think i've been on his sight before. doesn't look like he's working on anything right now. i am gonna bookmark it for reference though.